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Chops and MBI


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5 hours ago, CallipygianKing said:

That is correct. Neither corps will be participating in DCA this summer. Both corps will still be seen at Minnesota shows and in Indy at the Soundsport finals.

Changing times mean a change of focus and a rethinking of what’s best for organizations.

can't blame either group. shame that isn't a circuit wide trend

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  • 4 weeks later...

Been away for several years, but I'm back! 

Unfortunately, I see DCA as a classic example of the group that failed to jump the S-curve. If you aren't familiar with the concept, it's when a business misses a trending change and fails to adopt quickly enough... getting left behind, and ultimately, going out of business. DCA did itself in 10+ years ago when it was trying to hold on to the good ole' days. I know this because there were some great DCA corps who are no longer with us that shared in these frustrations because they were trying to design shows that were what their pool of talent was interested in performing... except they were limited in what they could do. DCA took a chance by thinking the differentiation was good, but then they changed their business model...

When DCA decided to allow performers under 21 to participate, this was pivotal. This was the right call in my opinion. DCA needed to clean up its reputation... but then they decided they weren't going to market to their new and (rapidly) growing clientele. It took a bit for B-flat instruments to be adopted and high school band directors weren't going to encourage students to learn how to play an instrument that didn't improve their playing ability in their ensembles with marching organizations that didn't perform at as high of a level. It took a DECADE to pass amplification after DCI. 

Finals staying in the same place and not finding a way to give enough incentive to encourage northern groups to travel has hurt the spread of the activity. Right now, the strongest corps is CV in my area (which is pretty strong), but it wasn't that long ago that they were a 6-8 place group. If groups like Cadets2, Bucs, or MBI had traveled south, that would have done wonders for building excitement. Creating a partnership with DCI to allow a limited number of DCA groups to perform in the regionals would have helped (I think joint local shows with DCI Open Class has been a good move). I know that is a highlight for many of the students currently in DCA, but it happens toward the beginning of their season. 

Hopefully, I'm not rambling, but I do think the only way for DCA to survive at this point is to create some kind of partnership with DCI or encourage groups to form WGI Winds groups. There is no size limit on those groups and a relatively small group of 30 is fairly large in that circuit. Building an ensemble that way could create great name recognition for the organization, allowing them to pivot to an outdoor ensemble in the future... OR... it would allow for easier recruiting to a DCA corps. Think about it... if a DCA corps produced a quality winds group, they would be able to easily recruit at local winds shows and help spread the good word about DCA.

I do think the other big issue is that DCA doesn't have much of a marketing presence. When I go to the DCA website right now, I can't even find last year's scores. I don't see them promoting their circuit at winter guard shows, DCI shows, or local marching band shows. Yes, it's the corps job to do that, as well, but if DCA wants to survive, it is going to have to start doing some of the lifting on its own and promote all of the groups. Awareness is key because I had great high school musicians who were thrilled when they made CV or Alliance down here in Georgia, and they were very aware of DCI. DCI just isn't an option for everyone, but if I had not told them, they would not have known about those opportunities with DCA corps.  

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Uhh DCA does not set the age of members the corps do. And been teenagers in DCA going back to 1970s and probably before. Or at least a certain 16 year old in 1974 who had a lot of company😎

Change to All Age moniker was just showing better what had already been going on. Kind of like “alumni” corps not made up of all past members dropping “alumni”.

 

Other than that... still reading.

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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What Jim said. I don't know of any time in DCA history when there weren't members under 21 in the ranks. Some corps more than others.  Like my old team... nicknamed "Kids and Girls" at one point in the 1970s. LOL.  

But obviously, "being under 21" is now much more commonplace in DCA. And BOS makes lots of good points.

Edited by Fran Haring
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there's stories of underage members in the AL/VFW days....

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1 hour ago, BOSMarcher said:

...Finals staying in the same place and not finding a way to give enough incentive to encourage northern groups to travel has hurt the spread of the activity. Right now, the strongest corps is CV in my area (which is pretty strong), but it wasn't that long ago that they were a 6-8 place group. If groups like Cadets2, Bucs, or MBI had traveled south, that would have done wonders for building excitement. Creating a partnership with DCI to allow a limited number of DCA groups to perform in the regionals would have helped (I think joint local shows with DCI Open Class has been a good move). I know that is a highlight for many of the students currently in DCA, but it happens toward the beginning of their season. 

Hopefully, I'm not rambling, but I do think the only way for DCA to survive at this point is to create some kind of partnership with DCI or encourage groups to form WGI Winds groups. There is no size limit on those groups and a relatively small group of 30 is fairly large in that circuit. Building an ensemble that way could create great name recognition for the organization, allowing them to pivot to an outdoor ensemble in the future... OR... it would allow for easier recruiting to a DCA corps. Think about it... if a DCA corps produced a quality winds group, they would be able to easily recruit at local winds shows and help spread the good word about DCA.

I do think the other big issue is that DCA doesn't have much of a marketing presence. When I go to the DCA website right now, I can't even find last year's scores. I don't see them promoting their circuit at winter guard shows, DCI shows, or local marching band shows. Yes, it's the corps job to do that, as well, but if DCA wants to survive, it is going to have to start doing some of the lifting on its own and promote all of the groups. Awareness is key because I had great high school musicians who were thrilled when they made CV or Alliance down here in Georgia, and they were very aware of DCI. DCI just isn't an option for everyone, but if I had not told them, they would not have known about those opportunities with DCA corps.  

Some good points and I'll add my two cents.

- Discussions have been around moving finals to different cities. The thing that you have to remember is a lot of the East Coast corps, aren't configured or budgeted to travel outside a 3-4 hour window. So sending Cadets2 or Bucs down to Atlanta is a giant shift in the organization, and though I agree it'd have a huge impact, there would need to be some sort of pay to help compensate those extra costs. The Midwest and Southern DCA corps are already accustomed to travel so going 8 hours for a show isn't a huge hurtle.

There are a few shows with combined DCI Open and DCA corps like Atlanta CV's show in July; I think it occuring more often would be great, though a lot of DCA corps already compete in DCI shows. There are a lot of corps like Atlanta CV, and Carolina Gold that already compete at DCI Regionals, and even the Columbus Saints made the trip down to DCI Regionals in 2016 to compete in their category back them. In fact Tradition didn't do any DCA shows until Finals in 2015 or 2016 (?) and only did DCI shows for scores so this is more or less a standard thing in the Midwest/South. These corps are in DCI's all-age class which allows them to compete as those shows.

There are a few DCA Corps with solid WGI groups; Carolina Gold has a phenomenal WGI Winds ensemble. Winds is a challenge depending on where you're located; and to be honest once you start going down that road and understand the costs you start to question the point of even doing drum corps to be honest. The experience, the cost and more are part of the reason why you're not seeing more drum corps starting because Winds is so much cheaper and provides a consistent performance experience; no rain outs; no environment effects; consistent performing experience and stellar marketing. The issue there is, lots of young people are already choosing to do WGI instead of DCI/DCA so starting a winds group is def helpful and can have some impact on recruiting, it also can have a lot of cons.

Edited by lcarlton
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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

there's stories of underage members in the AL/VFW days....

“Hey Harry... need to borrow your Legion card for a couple of days. Got a kid who can really play needs it for Nationals”.

Followed by “here kid... just remember if someone asks if your name is Harry Dimkowski you say “of course””.

old story I was told about Homewood Post PA

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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

there's stories of underage members in the AL/VFW days....

Definitely.

I've heard stories about kids in senior corps suddenly becoming corporals or sergeants and having served in whatever branch of the military... so a given corps could fulfill its veterans quota. :tongue:

-Edited- After posting, I realized Jim had beaten me to it, same gist.  LOL.

Edited by Fran Haring
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4 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Definitely.

I've heard stories about kids in senior corps suddenly becoming corporals or sergeants and having served in whatever branch of the military... so a given corps could fulfill its veterans quota. :tongue:

-Edited- After posting, I realized Jim had beaten me to it, same gist.  LOL.

One of my favorite bus stories from the Lancers. Wish I could remember the name the young man had to claim was his. His real name was German (he told me the story on himself) and name in card was Eastern European and he probably couldn’t say it let alone spell it. 

And Homewood Post = Pittsburgh Rockets and whole lot of Eastern European ethnic roots there. 

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6 hours ago, BOSMarcher said:

I do think the other big issue is that DCA doesn't have much of a marketing presence. When I go to the DCA website right now, I can't even find last year's scores. I don't see them promoting their circuit at winter guard shows, DCI shows, or local marching band shows. Yes, it's the corps job to do that, as well, but if DCA wants to survive, it is going to have to start doing some of the lifting on its own and promote all of the groups. Awareness is key because I had great high school musicians who were thrilled when they made CV or Alliance down here in Georgia, and they were very aware of DCI. DCI just isn't an option for everyone, but if I had not told them, they would not have known about those opportunities with DCA corps.  

Isn't the challenge here that there is no DCA staff?

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