Stu Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, OldSnareDrummer said: Apologies if my reaction (the American Idol one) seemed like a slam. It was really just an exaggerated albeit sarcastic disagreement. Maybe some mix of the two - traditional and independent would be a compromise. I could come on board with Test it in Open Class for a year and see what happens. I dunno....just spitballin'. I do not blame you. It was a single comment, and making sure it is not American Idolish is a legit concern. What riled me, without making this personal, was the GD comment and other falsehoods, mainly by the same poster, who went way off the rails in that direction. And after I pointed out the falsehoods as BS a snarky response was all that was returned. I apparently was tumping over the established judging apple cart and inaccurate gut reactions spewed forth. Edited June 6, 2019 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I like the “Hall of Fame” ideas. A more appropriate name for what we now call “Hall of Fame” is “Lifetime Achievement.” There could be awards for current marching members, perhaps with a bit of experience, that could be “Hall of Fame.” I’d also love to see an award for off the field service. The section where I sit at finals has some people steeped in the activity that go back years and years and at prelims and the early performances at semi’s lots of folks stop by to say hi to old friends. Many are involved in corps that are competing and you hear about talented marching members and up and coming staff. I’ve also heard stories about kids who teach dance and music to disabled folks. One year I heard about a young person who volunteered at a soup kitchen on a regular basis who gets his friends together and after the meals are served, they perform a concert. These kind of things remind us of how well rounded the kids are in so many cases and what great people they are turning out to be. Athletic programs often have awards for student athletes and kids who serve, why not Drum Corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans87 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I certainly don't want it to turn into American Idol, and I don't think ANYONE suggested that either. But why not let some qualified professionals from other musical backgrounds have a crack at judging our activity, even if it is just as an experiment to validate our criteria? I am sick and tired of the "sacred sheets" comments. Who says the sheets are any good anyway? You guessed it - the folks that came up with the criteria on the sheets say they are good. Maybe they are not good....or MAYBE there is a way to change/improve those sheets to make them even better? That is my reason for thinking an outside professionals opinion may be something worthy of consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, OldSnareDrummer said: There's plenty of baseball "experts" out there famous or not, but I don't know how many of them I'd want to see umpiring an MLB game. yes. Pharrell has great tunes. So does Wynton. Do i want them judging drum corps? No 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 2:44 PM, Stu said: If that is your opinion of my idea, fine, no problem, disagreement makes for good banter. But instead of resopnding to the actual facts within my idea what you did was mis-characteroze, mis-state, mis-quote, mis-represent, and outright type falsehoods about my idea. 'That' is what sparked my bs response. uh huh. no i do not like your idea thats not well fleshed out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 2:52 PM, cixelsyd said: Hey, you were the one worried about "some big name... putting down a score that could influence a championship". Argue with yourself. you missed the point. If trained and follow the criteria.....and do more than one read...will the results really be different? Maybe if it's just one read. I don't want that at championships if I am a contender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 23 hours ago, Stu said: Speaking of the judging training system, it needs to be revamped also. We now have a system the trains clones. I understand the desire for competitive consistency; but the current training system is one in which would tell accomplished jazz professionals that they know nothing about jazz if they disagreed with the current drum corps defined interpretation of general effect in that genera. And it is the closed minded fear of their own apple cart tumping over which drives the marching arts establishment into hating the opinions of music professionals outside the activity. I think you need to understand the judges training process. I know people recently certified and working, and it's nothing as you claim it to be oh and it's dumping not tumping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, garfield said: Get rid of this "It's Only About The Team" mentality, bring back and expand I&E, then make rock stars out of them. Brandon, CBS News in the stadium... Rock Star! The DCA side of drum corps life had a "rock-star" personality thing going on for many years... of course at a completely different level than you mention in your post (didn't have the national media exposure by any means, and so forth).... but that connection was a calling card for the circuit (you knew the drum majors, you knew the brass soloists, etc., those personalities were good at working the crowd, I&E was a bigger deal than it is now... fewer corps take part now) and sold some tickets along the way. Heck, the show in Western Maryland that ran for 12 seasons... there were folks there who bought a ticket specifically to see the Hawthorne Caballeros' DM Jim Russo. He #### near owned that venue. LOL. For whatever reasons, the DCA corps in general (still some exceptions) have moved away from that style. IMO it's a mistake, but that's just my opinion. Story for another thread, and another forum, I know. But your point is well-taken, for sure! Edited June 7, 2019 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: I think you need to understand the judges training process. I know people recently certified and working, and it's nothing as you claim it to be oh and it's dumping not tumping Judges are trained to interpret the sheets in the exact same manner, to define criteria in the exact same manner, to view each corps in the exact same manner, with the desired result being no matter who the judge is at any particular show the caption score should be exactly the same. Trial judging attempts to place that training into a real show situation. And if there is a judge who has a different interp than others on say the Music GE produced by a particular corps, even if that judge can justify the interp, that judge has to conform and score like all other judges in that caption or be weeded out. I get why; it is for competitive consistency. But what I would like to see is outside professionals working in the real world of professional music write the sheets, define the criteria, and train as judges. Edited June 7, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Spartans87 said: I certainly don't want it to turn into American Idol, and I don't think ANYONE suggested that either. But why not let some qualified professionals from other musical backgrounds have a crack at judging our activity, even if it is just as an experiment to validate our criteria? I am sick and tired of the "sacred sheets" comments. Who says the sheets are any good anyway? You guessed it - the folks that came up with the criteria on the sheets say they are good. Maybe they are not good....or MAYBE there is a way to change/improve those sheets to make them even better? That is my reason for thinking an outside professionals opinion may be something worthy of consideration. The sheets and criteria used for evaluations were created by the corps themselves, staffs and admins, with judge input, for sure. For that reason, they are good for those most impacted, the corps being evaluated. Throwing "qualified professionals" from other genres of music and/or dance into judging who have no background in marching music, and no idea how to rank and rate the corps, is looking to create chaos, IMO. How do they know how to award numbers for each subcaption? How do they know what to look for? Using their own background and trying to relate it to marching/music experience is just apples and oranges, IMO. Having said that, I do think that having those type of folks create tapes and talk about how the shows/performance appear to them is absolutely a great idea, but not as part of the adjudication process. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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