Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Stu said: A professional music expert with B-flat brass instruments, music theory, ensemble performance, balance, intonation, etc does not make them an expert at Nuclear Physics. That is true. So, you are correct in that it doesn't make you an expert at everything! However, it does make that professional music expert qualified to evaluate the aforementioned musical skill sets. By the way, you never answered the question: what key brass instruments do DCI corps use? And please, this is DCP. It is thread banter. Nothing more. So stop with the 'contact a corps' stuff. do these folks play on the move wearing the corps wear? there's so much more than just being great with an instrument. you leave off the whole visual aspect. Also you mention body and dance people...great do they do that with instruments or guard equipment? No. People that have experience with the visual and musical demands...aka good old audio/visual....should be writing the sheets. Not someone that sites down and olays music thats on a stand in front of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 2:26 PM, cixelsyd said: (I knew that already - just in case you were in doubt.) I read these words: To be fair, yes, I also saw you speak the usual company lines about sheet criteria, rank and rate, call it as you see it, and all the other judging ideals which I am convinced they (and you) really do strive to carry out. But you do not address the logical paradox of how "trends" can be imposed on subjective scoring in so many ways (corps staff, caption chiefs, judge administrators, irate fans) without artificially dampening legitimate differences of opinion. Maybe you truly believe there is no issue. But I think that needs more of a response than: ok so I got bored. who said anything about trends being imposed? Trends develop on their own. Judges aren't told what scores too give. They are told to rank and rate and make sure the commentary matches the number and the criteria on the sheet is applied. Thats it. as i have said several times, if a corps jumps from 82/81 on a sheet and next time out they go to a 90/89, yeah a caption head may look into it. if the commentary lines up...not an issue, especially if it's the same for everyone else at that show. if that doesn't line up, there may be a discussion on properly aligning commentary to the number given. Don't rave and call something the best and then give 7's. Don't be a grump on the tape then give a 92. But nowhere did I ever say anything about trends being imposed on the judges. You want to judge where you're told what scoring range you can use, go to USBands. That's the only place i know of where anything score is imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: do these folks play on the move wearing the corps wear? there's so much more than just being great with an instrument. you leave off the whole visual aspect. Also you mention body and dance people...great do they do that with instruments or guard equipment? No. People that have experience with the visual and musical demands...aka good old audio/visual....should be writing the sheets. Not someone that sites down and olays music thats on a stand in front of them Go see Here Come the Mummies live. Tell me they do not move and play and wear costumes! Or go see a Broadway show and try to ignore all of the choreography dance and movement, even manipulating items in their hands, all in their costumes. Tower of Power, Stadium Rock Extravaganza. Nope they don't move, play, dance, LOL. And many in symphonies have been in high school or university marching ensrmbles, so they do have movement playing experience. But alas, so goes the never ending self serving closed minded inner circle of drum corps folk. Where if you have not performed in a corps you have no clue, no sound judgement, no cradentials to make so called drum corps evaluations. No wonder many on the outside professional world see the marching arts like this: If ya ain't been a marchin, a twirlin, or a spinnin, ya ain't good enough at tellin us folks what fer. We are drum corps dang it, and only respect them there folks who have done what we done to tells us what difference is between good bad stuff. But they are way off, oh so way off. The marching arts is actually full of educated elite ego snobs who over pat themselves on the back thinking that their way is the only right way for drum corps to exist. Anyway.... Edited June 15, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: ... I leave for disney in 2 days..... Tell the performers in Future Corps I said hello!!! Oh yeah, Disney realized that drum corps (as you invision it) was not viable for the future of real professional music entertainment way back in the year 2000. Carry on. Edited June 15, 2019 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzzz Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I can tell you what the artistic people outside the world of drum corps say about drum corps or any pageantry art for that matter. Why do you limit yourself in your exploration of creativity? Why do you want to limit yourself to a set uniform/costume? Why do you limit yourself to the types of props and lighting that can be used if you are attempting to push the envelop of creativity? The fact is there is a box that designers are placed in with the activity and if we want to continue to evolve and grow the activity we need to be willing to expand that box. Maybe there are limits to the expansion but that should not include what a corps wears, what they play or how they play it. If we want to restrict to brass instruments that is fine but cool it with the pissing and moaning about uniforms, Quit complaining about props. The end goal is ENTERTAINMENT and in the times we live in we need to be open to what people react to be entertained. If you are old you have to get over the fact that times are changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Spatzzz said: I can tell you what the artistic people outside the world of drum corps say about drum corps or any pageantry art for that matter. Why do you limit yourself in your exploration of creativity? Why do you want to limit yourself to a set uniform/costume? Why do you limit yourself to the types of props and lighting that can be used if you are attempting to push the envelop of creativity? The fact is there is a box that designers are placed in with the activity and if we want to continue to evolve and grow the activity we need to be willing to expand that box. Maybe there are limits to the expansion but that should not include what a corps wears, what they play or how they play it. If we want to restrict to brass instruments that is fine but cool it with the pissing and moaning about uniforms, Quit complaining about props. The end goal is ENTERTAINMENT and in the times we live in we need to be open to what people react to be entertained. If you are old you have to get over the fact that times are changing. Well, I am old...marched 64-72, and I love the concept of using costuming and props to truly tell the story the designers want to tell. Now, sometimes they work and sometimes not so much, like in any artistic endeavor. BD's Felliniesque and Crown's Relentless are on my own all-time favorite list of shows going back to the first show I saw in 1963. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, Spatzzz said: I can tell you what the artistic people outside the world of drum corps say about drum corps or any pageantry art for that matter. Why do you limit yourself in your exploration of creativity? Why do you want to limit yourself to a set uniform/costume? Why do you limit yourself to the types of props and lighting that can be used if you are attempting to push the envelop of creativity? The fact is there is a box that designers are placed in with the activity and if we want to continue to evolve and grow the activity we need to be willing to expand that box. Maybe there are limits to the expansion but that should not include what a corps wears, what they play or how they play it. If we want to restrict to brass instruments that is fine but cool it with the pissing and moaning about uniforms, Quit complaining about props. The end goal is ENTERTAINMENT and in the times we live in we need to be open to what people react to be entertained. If you are old you have to get over the fact that times are changing. As someone who ventures into the professional world of entertainment, I 100% agree. But I do have a question: If drum corps is to remain a 'competitive' activity, how would you balance the complete release of design creativity with the need for some kind of set criteria in order to prevent the results of each show from being a random moving dart board of individual open subjectivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, MikeD said: Well, I am old...marched 64-72, and I love the concept of using costuming and props to truly tell the story the designers want to tell. Now, sometimes they work and sometimes not so much, like in any artistic endeavor. BD's Felliniesque and Crown's Relentless are on my own all-time favorite list of shows going back to the first show I saw in 1963. So you have seen every paradigm shift, from VFW to the inception of DCI to what we have now!!! Cool!!! Just curious. What changes would you like to see as the activity moves into the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, Stu said: So you have seen every paradigm shift, from VFW to the inception of DCI to what we have now!!! Cool!!! Just curious. What changes would you like to see as the activity moves into the future? On the field... Go 100% into theatrical style presentations, costumes, props, etc. "Felliniesque", "Relentless" and "Downside Up" are three of my personal all-time favorite shows. Create an "Anything goes" division where a corps can use any instrumentation and no limit on size. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, MikeD said: On the field... Go 100% into theatrical style presentations, costumes, props, etc. "Felliniesque", "Relentless" and "Downside Up" are three of my personal all-time favorite shows. Create an "Anything goes" division where a corps can use any instrumentation and no limit on size. Those are cool ideas!! And I tend to fall in that direction. But there is something to overcome (other that the snarling ney sayers, ha ha). Like I asked Spatzzz: If drum corps is to remain a 'competitive' activity, how would you balance the complete release of design creativity with the need for some kind of set criteria in order to prevent the results of each show from being a random moving dart board of individual open subjectivity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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