OldSnareDrummer Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, hughesmr said: Execution/content captions scored by qualified judges, GE scored solely by the audience in attendance via remote smartphone technology Oh my. This is radical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, OldSnareDrummer said: Oh my. This is radical. And beaten like a dead 🐎 in countless threads. Edited June 7, 2019 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, hughesmr said: Execution/content captions scored by qualified judges, GE scored solely by the audience in attendance via remote smartphone technology Making sure corps are connecting with the audience is vital; we certainly want them on their feet, shouting and clapping with overwhelming joy, and packing the stands at the oil can stadium.. And giving the fans a sense of ownership is intriguing. While I do find the notion intetesting, here are two points I would like to see you address. 1) While the parent of a child in corps ABC, or an alum of that corps, might hoop and hollar for many other corps, wouldn't they most likely still vote for their own corps irrespective of being more engaged with another corps? 2) Judges are partly held accountable against bias because we can see their names and what scores they give. The audience would have anonymity. Wouldn't that anonymity support voting out of personal bias instead of actual corps engagement? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Stu said: Making sure corps are connecting with the audience is vital; we certainly want them on their feet, shouting and clapping with overwhelming joy, and packing the stands at the oil can stadium.. And giving the fans a sense of ownership is intriguing. While I do find the notion intetesting, here are two points I would like to see you address. 1) While the parent of a child in corps ABC, or an alum of that corps, might hoop and hollar for many other corps, wouldn't they most likely still vote for their own corps irrespective of being more engaged with another corps? 2) Judges are partly held accountable against bias because we can see their names and what scores they give. The audience would have anonymity. Wouldn't that anonymity support voting out of personal bias instead of actual corps engagement? They did this (kind of) back in 2011 in early season shows with text voting. The real problem is that the vast majority of fans are not like us on DCP - they just don't care that much. Announce an app and they're just not going to use it. My only real comment is that I'd like to see a much more entertainment / audience focused description of General Effect than what we currently have. As it is, they're trying to put a cloud in a box, with the result that nobody can tell what it is. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Stu said: But the current drum corps adjudicating system does not leave much room for diversity of sound, either corps to corps or genera to genera. There are subtle differences, that is true, but not major diversity like in other generas. For example... In the professional world of Jazz, the Smoking Section sounds vastly different than the Harry Conick Jr. Band. In the professional world of Symphony, the Chicago Symphony sounds different than the London Symphony. Even when these Jazz or Symphonic ensembles are playing the exact same compositions with the exact same instrumentation. Same applies to the professional worlds of Rock, Country, Funk, etc. However, in Drum Corps, the criteria for qualitative Music GE is so strictly defined by the corps design staff that every corps now attempts to produce the exact same musical presentation of sound; no matter the genera; no matter the corps idenity. Again there are some subtle differences, but everyone strives for that Crown, BD, SCV winning sound. Blowing out the current system; having a diverse number of non drum corps professionals write the sheets, define the criteria, be in charge of judge's training, and then judging the ensembles would more than likely bring forth way more diversity of musical production and corps sound idenity. All the while they are using the same instrumentation. Just like it is in the professional world. I do not really agree that all corps are trying to produce the exact same sound. There is a ‘BD sound’, a ‘Crown sound’, ‘Coats sound’, etc... Aa for comparing orchestra sounds...a symphony orchestra is not competing against other groups. Each is a unique entity that is molded by the conductor. Also, they have s wider palette of instruments available to the conductor in creating their desired sound, so a variety of timbres is inevitable based on the director’s preference in sound. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, MikeD said: I do not really agree that all corps are trying to produce the exact same sound. There is a ‘BD sound’, a ‘Crown sound’, ‘Coats sound’, etc... Aa for comparing orchestra sounds...a symphony orchestra is not competing against other groups. Each is a unique entity that is molded by the conductor. Also, they have s wider palette of instruments available to the conductor in creating their desired sound, so a variety of timbres is inevitable based on the director’s preference in sound. I am not advocating going backwards with G bugles, so a17 please don't think that is what I mean. But there was a time where each corps had their own very unique distinct sound. Within seconds of listening to a recording anyone could pinpoint "that is Madison" or "that is Regiment" or "that is SCV". One was Dark, another was Bright, one was Raspy, another was Loud, and yet another was Controlled... All were distict identies to each corps. However, the current sound from corps to corps is very homogenized; likely due to the staff jumping from corps to corps combined with like minded interp of sheet criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Stu said: What you state here is true; but that is not the fluctuation I am referring to. If for some reason two or more music judges are at the exact same show, 'and judging the exact same music sheet' at the exact same time, the ultimate goal is for both of them to come to the exact same conclusion, with the exact same caption score, and the exact same caption ranking for that specific show. They should both exhibit the exact same opinion on the exact same caption being adjudicated. That is part of what training and trial judging is designed to do in order to help newbies conform (also true). So, the fluctuation I am referring to comes from human perception differences. That type of fluctuation from judge to judge within DCI is not by design; and any judge who exhibits too much variation from the rest of the pack (even if the variation is justified) will be told bye-bye. are both judges looking at the exact same thing at the exact same time? If not, then well, yes you can get differences. you'll never get every single judge to share the exact same wavelength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 hours ago, cixelsyd said: You seem to think they could be, judging from your own subsequent post: And if I recall correctly, the DCI judging system uses subjective judging. Judging art (particularly "effect" in drum corps) has to be a subjective thing, which involves opinion. Some diversity of opinion among different people is inevitable, unless... well, unless DCI imposes some kind of influence to make these judging opinions conform to each other (slotting). So unless the DCI training/trialing/certification process teaches judges to slot, I would think any number of different judges would eventually have opinions that are not in perfect lock-step with each other. DCI, WGI...only place i know of has tried to place an influence on what judges do, and that was ( and may still be) a band circuit that says numbers can't go below "x" this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: are both judges looking at the exact same thing at the exact same time? If not, then well, yes you can get differences. you'll never get every single judge to share the exact same wavelength. That is why when two are adjudicating the same caption with the same sheets adding together and dividing by two yields a more fair score. But the ultimate "goal" of the training and experience is to get the exact same rating and exact same ranking from both judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 hours ago, MikeN said: They did this (kind of) back in 2011 in early season shows with text voting. The real problem is that the vast majority of fans are not like us on DCP - they just don't care that much. Announce an app and they're just not going to use Heh... the DCA season opener in recent years has been an evaluation format... the judges give the corps input, but no scores... and the fans are given the chance to vote for their favorite corps through an app. I was the announcer at this show, and had access to the running vote tally... and, gotta be honest here, some fans cast their votes before even seeing any of the corps. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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