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DrumScorps

North Canton, OH - Saturday, June 22, 2019

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3 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I will try.

This is an activity driven by passion, so I apologize 

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30 minutes ago, onionhead said:

This is an activity driven by passion, so I apologize 

You have nothing to apologize for my friend.

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1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Also are Cadets amplifying the whole brass sectionThere were nine microphones aimed at the field between the 40s, and at times it sure sounded like the whole corps was being pumped thorugh the speakers.

 

Yes.  It sounds terrible as they try to use electronics and thunderous goo to cover for weakness in the brass.

They have some talent and there is a good horn sound in there somewhere.  Staff needs to be responsive to OBJECTIVE opinions by those who are not Cadets insiders.

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1 hour ago, Brass Lover said:

I don't remember people babying David and telling him "You can beat Goliath, we believe in you!". Besides if sports has taught me anything hating Boston just makes them more powerful.

I love this!  Thank you.  It's wasn't specific to Boston but yes, I whole-heartedly agree. 

...and yes, members do pay attention.  Some of those bus are long!  Lol!

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1 hour ago, cfirwin3 said:

For the sake of discussion...

Slotting means 2 different things to different people.

A. Slotting means (to most) the application of a placement prior to adjudication (this is the misunderstood, nefarious definition... that actually isn't true).

B. Slotting ACTUALLY means... drum roll...

numbers management.

Slotting is merely the unavoidable practice of comparison as numbers are being assigned.  It's why we can't really compare (faithfully) numbers between different shows on the same night.  And it's why scores will occasionally bounce a significant value from one night to the next while the placement order stays the same (especially when a high placing group takes an early performance time in a lineup).

 

Okay...

Now fight!

The Minnesota Twins and the Atlanta Braves both started the 1991 MLB season in last place. By the end of that season they were both in the World Series, and the Twins became the Champions.

So, if Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts can do that sort of thing this year, fight it out for 1st and 2nd on Finals night, I will say there is no early season numbers management trend slotting within DCI. Otherwise early season trend slotting, which in turn directly impacts subjective ranking for the rest of the season, is a very real occurance in DCI.

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5 hours ago, Stu said:

The Minnesota Twins and the Atlanta Braves both started the 1991 MLB season in last place. By the end of that season they were both in the World Series, and the Twins became the Champions.

So, if Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts can do that sort of thing this year, fight it out for 1st and 2nd on Finals night, I will say there is no early season numbers management trend slotting within DCI. Otherwise early season trend slotting, which in turn directly impacts subjective ranking for the rest of the season, is a very real occurance in DCI.

You are assigning improper cause to the effect.  It is possible to play better baseball one day to the next, but it is not possible to program the same show better (or worse, for that matter) one day to the next in an effectual way.  Your example isn't congruent concerning the source of point value.

That's not arbitrary adjudicated slotting as people conceive of it.

By your analogy, performing a surge like that in drumcorps requires some agressive maneuvering that isn't really possible (or worthwhile for the experience).

Corps would have to stop competing, redesign (and probably change entirely) their show.  They would have to break contracts and successfully recruit different talent, not only for membership, but also for the design team... so essentially they have to start over with a 4 week training session on a new show and a new drumcorps.  That's where the bulk of points come from.  Contention is mostly determined at the brainstorming table and the recruitment roster... NOT the judging table and the judging roster on opening night.

 

Change my mind.

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6 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Speaking of numbers management, I'll take this moment to say, as I do once or twice every year, that either early season scores and late season scores are determined using wildly different criteria, or, as I would argue, that early season scores are way too low.

If you put Boston's or Bluecoats' shows from tonight in a time machine and dropped them into championship prelims in August, no way are they scoring behind a corps like, say, Legends, who will probably earn a number in the mid to high 70s that night. Which means that the "real" scores tonight are already in the low 80s: a top corps is improving by about 15 points in "real" quality over the course of a season. But no way can the judges manage distinctions that fine. So everybody starts out far below what they would earn for the exact same performance in August.

Totally agree.

But that's a different issue from the definition of slotting.

In the New York State School Music Association system where I teach, students participating in regional and state festivals almost always achieve perfect solo scores (this is the converse effect of the same general priciple, as there is no way that thousands of 7-12 grade students are playing professional repertoire with perfect precision and expression).

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Anyone in the "know"... are Mandarins competitive with Blue Stars and Cadets?  They did well out west last night, comparatively.

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8 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

I am stating with full 100% confidence that BAC will not challenge Santa Clara Vanguard, Blue Devils, Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, or Cavaliers during finals week. If I am wrong, then I will eat major huge crown and admit I am a dumb moron who doesn't deserve to ever comment on DCI again. And you will be the first person I grovel to for forgiveness on August 11th. If I am right, I won't rub it in to you, but if I am wrong I promise I will find you and bow down to you. 

You are smarter than I for not making such a bold prediction so early, but after seeing the top 6, the other 5 have out-designed Boston by a mile. 🙂

Good for you.  It's awesome that you are such a expert in these things.  I guess the season is over now. I just have one question. Am I going to have to listen to you repeat yourself all season on this point or are you now done insulting the corps? I have a feeling it is the former and not the later.

Maybe Boston should change their narrative and execute Anne Boleyn instead of David slaying the Giant.

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8 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Speaking of numbers management, I'll take this moment to say, as I do once or twice every year, that either early season scores and late season scores are determined using wildly different criteria, or, as I would argue, that early season scores are way too low.

If you put Boston's or Bluecoats' shows from tonight in a time machine and dropped them into championship prelims in August, no way are they scoring behind a corps like, say, Legends, who will probably earn a number in the mid to high 70s that night. Which means that the "real" scores tonight are already in the low 80s: a top corps is improving by about 15 points in "real" quality over the course of a season. But no way can the judges manage distinctions that fine. So everybody starts out far below what they would earn for the exact same performance in August.

Excellent point that I believe has to be true. I guess gives the judges time and space with number separation .

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