Jump to content

North Canton, OH - Saturday, June 22, 2019


Recommended Posts

Quote

 

It is highly disappointing that the talk about the Regiment isn't about them challenging for a top spot but rather, feeling they will be watching finals. I too have made a similar assertion. I just hope I am wrong. They need way more clarity of thought as to why they are doing what they are doing. The uniform changes need to be better thought out and perhaps have a purpose (I couldn't figure it out). They have their work cut out for them, and I am not sure the design staff is up to the challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

Name a Mandarins show that is worthy of a medal (in your opinion).

Edit:  that's not meant as a snide remark.  Just demonstrating that this line of thinking should have quite a lot of evidence to support it... A big list of 12-7th place shows that are arguably 3-1st place shows (by the adjudication criteria).  It's not really a defensible assertion when you consider the need for evidence.

Pick any corps that begins the season lower than eight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:

 

At the end of the day, it’s simple - I think the other 5 are playing more to the judges than BAC is. What’s right? What’s wrong? Depends on what you want.

Boston’s organizational goal since the 75th Gala is Building A Champion.  Maybe the show decision makers feel they can reach that goal with entertaining productions.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still can't get over the fact that some folks are proclaiming Boston can't do this or that simply based on the video of the first show... Without even seeing it in person.  They may come in 1st or 6th, but to "guarantee" what their ceiling is seems disenguous. If you are that good you really should get your judging card.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Ediker said:

I love the corps, yada, yada.  I'm also fully prepared to dish out criticism when it's called for.  The corps hired this staff... and with little to no oversight of what they produce.  They were given a free hand.  If Boston's management is not calling them out when they don't dig as deeply as the competition, then WHO WILL?????  

I love the staff... go way back with some of them...  and enjoy the energy they've brought. 

Wicked Games was an excellent show.  Total turnaround for Boston.  The GE was there. S. O. S. had many great qualities, but felt like the designers were resting on their GE laurels, instead of charging into new territory.  It did not lead the activity, like last year's medalists did.  Goliath is another great show.  Total step up from a technical standpoint.  There was obviously a lot of thought and work that went into this production.  However, there is not the level of artistic risk, and GE variety, that this set of designers is capable of.  

I don't know what you are talking about. BAC is at an all time high this year design wise....you admit as much in the above comments.  Who says the design team didn't "dig deep"? I think they did.  The live audiences have bern going crazy for the product.  And yes, unlike their former gigs, they do have an extremely high level of autonomy.  In Boston, the management focuses on fundraising and providing the members with the best experience possible. Boston has never been this close ti the top. It is another step in the progression. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Pick any corps that begins the season lower than eight.

I don't follow you...

Phantom Regiment started the year at or below 8.

Edited by cfirwin3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

I don't follow you...

Phantom Regiment started the year at or below 8.

Phantom has, effectively, zero chance to win a medal this year. No offense to them as they may well deserve to win gold, but if you start the season that far behind logistically, it is not practically possible (given how dci scores, the fact that seven other corps are closer to the max score of 100, and the length of the season) to make up enough ground. 

Edited by MikeRapp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

Phantom has, effectively, zero chance to win a medal this year. No offense to them as they may well deserve to win gold, but if you start the season that far behind logistically, it is not practically possible (given how dci scores, the fact that seven other corps are closer to the max score of 100, and the length of the season) to make up enough ground. 

Yes they have zero chance but it has nothing to do with systemic issues in adjudication.  If it did then you would be able to argue, specifically, about past shows that deserved a medal against the field of competition that were served up an 8th place finish due to where they started the season.  There are no such examples.

We can easily argue over 8th place finishers that may have arguably deserved 6th... but that's only because there are clear comparisons to make between the groups in that zone as per the adjudication criteria.

Can you name a corps that started 8ish, achieved excellence through the season (via changes and improvements) and then were arbitrarily denied 3ish against the field of competition due to their starting placement?

We should be able to name 7th place corps that were robbed of 2nd if your theory is true.  We can't.

As I said before.  Contention is decided largely at the brainstorming table and recruitment roster... not in a conspiracy of slotting.

Edited by cfirwin3
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

Phantom has, effectively, zero chance to win a medal this year. No offense to them as they may well deserve to win gold, but if you start the season that far behind logistically, it is not practically possible (given how dci scores, the fact that seven other corps are closer to the max score of 100, and the length of the season) to make up enough ground. 

Yes, they have no chance, but they just don't have the design and talent to win. That says nothing about the current judging system, it says everything about PR as an organization. They just have to start designing better shows. Look at Spirit last year. 13th after losing to literal feeder corps the two seasons before - all because of design. That's the key.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

That is a really bad analogy. Trying to win in any pro sport isn’t even comparable to drum corps in any way. Both Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts will likely be sitting on the sidelines on Saturday night. It has nothing to do with slotting. The Blue Stars conceivably started in 12th place last year (as both Regiment and Crossmen beat them out of the gate). I never for one second though Regiment or Crossmen would be a head of Blue Stars at finals, because the Blue Stars from the get go had a much better design and more room to go. I said so in the Blue Stars 2018 thread. I even said after the first video I saw before the season started that it was a top 8 show.  They finished 8th. All because of design.  Regiment and Madison won’t because they don’t have the design. It’s that simple.

Design can take you further or it can destroy you. In 2016, a more talent Cadets corps lost to a less talented Cavaliers corps because of design. In 2017, a more talent Cadets corps lost to a LIKELY less talented Boston Crusaders corps because of design. In 2017, a more talent Bluecoats corps lost to a less talented Cavaliers corps because of design. When a corps is getting positive response to their design from the judges, it builds morale, and as morale is boosted execution is boosted, and as execution is boosted competitive results are boosted. Then repeat and repeat and repeat. It’s a snowball effect, and it has the opposite effect if the design is worse than your peers.

You have to start with a design that is better than the corps above you if you want a shot at moving up. We’ve seen 9 of the top 12 last year. ALL have better designs then Regiment, and Blue knights likely do too. That’s why Regiment won’t move up. Nothing to do with slotting and everything to do with design.

 

Sure, it is two vastly different competitive criteria; objective scoring (MLB) and subjective evaluation ranking (DCI). That was one of the things in which I was pointing out in which is that slotting in MLB cannot occur. But you have actually also just supported my premise.

That after the first or second DCI show within a season the evaulation of design actually does begin to place each corps into a 'range' in which there is no way to overcome. You can be as obtuse as you want by denying the word, but even you just admited that Regiment and Scouts are already in a 'slotted' range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...