North Canton, OH - Saturday, June 22, 2019


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Wouldn't that be true of calling a runner out or safe at first base?

Machines rule the world in his philosophy.  But somehow, people didn't make these machines and set the standard of measurement for them.

Inexplicable.

Edited by cfirwin3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 254
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Wow what? I know what I'm talking about. They will not place higher than 6th at finals. If you think I'm crazy or wrong, save this, and come back to me on August 11th. Their design is not up there wit

IMHO, their music book ranges somewhere between elevator music and a college marching band halftime show. Standing around on boxes instead of marching isn’t helping. 

Phyllis Steen. There’s gotta be a drag queen out there somewhere with that moniker. Lol

3 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

Machines rule the world in his philosophy.  But somehow, people didn't make these machines and set the standard of measurment for them.

Inexplicable.

In objective evaluation, rulers, watches, and other direct measurable tools.must be used. Yes. Otherwise it is mere observed opinion.

Edited by Stu
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Wouldn't that be true of calling a runner out or safe at first base?

Umpiring is totally subjective.

Famous umpire Bill Klem was slow making a call, and one of the players asked if the runner was safe or not. Klem said..."It ain't nothin' till I call it.""

Another time he was later shown a picture of a blown call he had made, and he said "Gentleman, he was out because I said he was out." 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Stu said:

In objective evaluation, rulers, watches, and other direct measurable tools.must be used. Yes. Otherwise it is mere observed opinion.

That's simply not true as I think you mean it.  Reference (which is a predetermined standard) must be used to establish measurement (which is a ruler that I think you are ignoring).  Fine increments only need to be established when that is required by the adjudication.  Most adjudication does not require this at all.  If I fill a glass more than half with water you would only need to verify it's volume if the amount was too close to observe by the eye.  Otherwise, filling a glass 2/3 full only requires the verification of observable amounts to accurately adjudicate that it is indeed more than half full.  The standard of adjudication calls for no further analysis in this case.

Even by your sports analogy, the technological replay of an event is only called for in the rare circumstance of incremental closeness.  The vast majority of plays are made in a game with obviously observable and visually verifiable actions (replay is not used on every play and some cases when it is called for without merit will result in a penalty -loss of time out, etc.).

You are painted into a corner on this.

Also on a previous point, arbitration IS subjective.  That's the point of it.  It is a subjectivity that is contractually accepted by parties involved as a final resolution.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We should pick this discussion up in private discussion or a new (properly tittled) thread.  Otherwise, this hijacked show thread will be the 'show' that never goes away.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/23/2019 at 7:45 PM, cfirwin3 said:

There is a hint in there that the subjective elements of adjudication in drumcorps are the majority rule.  When you look at the guidance rubrics, you find that this isn't true for most of the scoring.  The second thing that seems hinted in there that I take issue with is that the early reads could be poor (wrong) and the corps are stuck with that for the season.  I'm not sure if you are suggesting that, but again, I fall back on the simple test to name a corps that historically got a 'bad' read (again, only if you are suggesting this) and was never awarded a proper placement adjustment after achieving excellence (compared to the field) on the season.

What you are effectively saying is that there is no way a corps can start out at nine, and become good enough to medal. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Umpiring is totally subjective.

Famous umpire Bill Klem was slow making a call, and one of the players asked if the runner was safe or not. Klem said..."It ain't nothin' till I call it.""

Another time he was later shown a picture of a blown call he had made, and he said "Gentleman, he was out because I said he was out." 

 

Within the next few years baseball will be calling balls and strikes with computers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MikeRapp said:

What you are effectively saying is that there is no way a corps can start out at nine, and become good enough to medal. 

Yes, but not because of the adjudicators.  The group controls their placement.  They theoretically could do it, but the cost is too great to go there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cfirwin3 said:

Yes, but not because of the adjudicators.  The group controls their placement.  They theoretically could do it, but the cost is too great to go there.

Yeah I’m not buying it. I don’t misunderstand your premise, but I ain’t agreeing.

Ive followed DCI for a long time and I have argued this topic for years. The reality is, we have the best of several imperfect scoring methodologies. When you set a max score of 100, have the field begin in the 70s, and a set number of shows in which to add to your score—you get what we have now. When I first started following dci closely I couldn’t believe we had agreed to such a self fulfilling prophecy as what we have. It’s not fair and it’s not great, but it beats the tick system, which is effectively what you would have with no ceiling on scoring.

Edited by MikeRapp
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.