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Cincinnati Summer Music Games 6/25


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On that Madison scheduling issue.

It just does no good to put the burden of design on the proficiency of execution. Meaning, it is counterproductive to work the kids harder on the stuff that they are responsible for when the bulk of the problem lies in the stuff that they are not responsible for.  It's especially no good to do this if/when the touring time table calls for sleep... or some retreat time.

Anyone that has marched can probably remember those days when the marching block rehearsal was horrific... inexplicably and indefensibley because the content numbers were low.  That kind of behavior saps the morale in a hurry.

Madison needs to go back to the drawing board... not the proverbial weight room, or the lap track, or the basics block.

It is vital that the membership have the best experience possible and that all of their hard work be dedicated to real effectual goals (not compensation for missteps).

Edited by cfirwin3
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7 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Well, you just made a lot of incorrect assumptions. I marched in 4 drum corps 1973 to 1981, the last of which was the Madison Scouts, and I was never ever treated like crap, overworked, underfed, sick or injured. You can attempt to defend the 2019 Madison Scouts leadership team giving members a "rest and relaxation" day 3 days after the start of the season, but while Madison gets rested, their competitors are practicing and the Scouts are losing ground.  The Cadets have the right approach, Madison does not.

Unless you’re around the corps all day every day then you can’t possibly know what the kids need right now.  Great leadership is smart enough to know when they are physically and mentally ready to be pushed and when they would benefit more from a break so they can come back focused and energized.  

Edited by Den8uml
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8 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Well, you just made a lot of incorrect assumptions. I marched in 4 drum corps 1973 to 1981, the last of which was the Madison Scouts, and I was never ever treated like crap, overworked, underfed, sick or injured. You can attempt to defend the 2019 Madison Scouts leadership team giving members a "rest and relaxation" day 3 days after the start of the season, but while Madison gets rested, their competitors are practicing and the Scouts are losing ground.  The Cadets have the right approach, Madison does not.

Says he was never overworked, underfed, sick, or injured.

Demands that Scouts overwork current members.

You should leave the activity.

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2 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

On that Madison scheduling issue.

It just does no good to put the burden of design on the proficiency of execution. Meaning, it is counterproductive to work the kids harder on the stuff that they are responsible for when the bulk of the problem lies in the stuff that they are not responsible for.  It's especially no good to do this if/when the touring time table calls for sleep... or some retreat time.

Anyone that has marched can probably remember those days when the marching block rehearsal was horrific... inexplicably and indefensibley because the content numbers were low.  That kind of behavior saps the morale in a hurry.

Madison needs to go back to the drawing board... not the proverbial weight room, or the lap track, or the basics block.

It is vital that the membership have the best experience possible and that all of their hard work be dedicated to real effectual goals (not compensation for missteps).

Thank you.

It’s not the performers.  It’s what they are given to perform. While the Scouts’ program is infinitely better than it has been over the last few years, the degree of difficulty isn’t there.  In other words, it’s too easy.  This wrecks the music analysis score and there’s not a darn thing any of those young men in the field can do about it.  I’m confident the staff will make the show harder and more competitive as the season progresses.

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8 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Well, you just made a lot of incorrect assumptions. I marched in 4 drum corps 1973 to 1981, the last of which was the Madison Scouts, and I was never ever treated like crap, overworked, underfed, sick or injured. You can attempt to defend the 2019 Madison Scouts leadership team giving members a "rest and relaxation" day 3 days after the start of the season, but while Madison gets rested, their competitors are practicing and the Scouts are losing ground.  The Cadets have the right approach, Madison does not.

Come on, man.  We’ve been over this ; the Scouts had been in ST since mid-May.  Plus, DCI has rules now about rest days.   Maybe Scouts front-ended this one to devote more time in rehearsal later. 

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9 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Well, you just made a lot of incorrect assumptions. I marched in 4 drum corps 1973 to 1981, the last of which was the Madison Scouts, and I was never ever treated like crap, overworked, underfed, sick or injured. You can attempt to defend the 2019 Madison Scouts leadership team giving members a "rest and relaxation" day 3 days after the start of the season, but while Madison gets rested, their competitors are practicing and the Scouts are losing ground.  The Cadets have the right approach, Madison does not.

Congratulations on your well being.  But it is 2019 now and there are different ways to maximize progress and what you are describing is not one of them.  Work smarter not harder.  That applies to more than drum corps too.  I have watched a corps in ST this year and am amazed at how they are taught and how they learn.  Beating MM's into submission thinking you will achieve excellence is not the way to go.  Having a rehearsal plan each day and being consistent with it will garner better results for performance.  Being aware of MM's nutrition and proper rest is needed to get the best in the long run. 

Years ago I was running a rehearsal following your idea of rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, don't lose ground because everyone else is doing this too (not actually true).  We were getting nothing out of rehearsal because of MM fatigue..  So I backed off, just had a goofy fun rehearsal and stopped pounding run through after run through.  We had the best performance of the year that night, gained ground.  It is not about pound, pound, pound anymore.  It is about rehearsing in a manner that gets the most out of your MM's.  They require energy to maximize a performance.  Times change and so should teaching methods and rehearsal conduct.

Edited by LabMaster
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53 minutes ago, LabMaster said:

Congratulations on your well being.  But it is 2019 now and there are different ways to maximize progress and what you are describing is not one of them.  Work smarter not harder.  That applies to more than drum corps too.  I have watched a corps in ST this year and am amazed at how they are taught and how they learn.  Beating MM's into submission thinking you will achieve excellence is not the way to go.  Having a rehearsal plan each day and being consistent with it will garner better results for performance.  Being aware of MM's nutrition and proper rest is needed to get the best in the long run. 

Years ago I was running a rehearsal following your idea of rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, don't lose ground because everyone else is doing this too (not actually true).  We were getting nothing out of rehearsal because of MM fatigue..  So I backed off, just had a goofy fun rehearsal and stopped pounding run through after run through.  We had the best performance of the year that night, gained ground.  It is not about pound, pound, pound anymore.  It is about rehearsing in a manner that gets the most out of your MM's.  They require energy to maximize a performance.  Times change and so should teaching methods and rehearsal conduct.  When you were aging out, an age out today was born about 17 years later. 

Having marched in a local-circuit junior corps in the Stone Age, a corps where our director/drill guy/horn guy ran us into the ground on a regular basis... thank you for this post.

We had our moments of "over-rehearsing" in the DCA corps where I marched... and, to be fair, there were also various times when the staff knew when to ease up. But some folks there had the "work just for the sake of work" thing going on. Honestly, that sucked.

It's a different era now. A better one, IMO. Rehearsal ethic... the planning, the members' focus, the  "working smart" (not wasting time)... is so much better now.

Edited by Fran Haring
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15 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Having marched in a local-circuit junior corps in the Stone Age, a corps where our director/drill guy/horn guy ran us into the ground on a regular basis... thank you for this post.

We had our moments of "over-rehearsing" in the DCA corps where I marched... but there were also various times when the staff knew when to push us and when to ease up. But some folks there had the "work just for the sake of work" thing going on. Honestly, that sucked.

It's a different era now. A better one, IMO. Rehearsal ethic... the planning, the members' focus, the  "working smart" (not wasting time)... is so much better now.

I remember a day working at Canton HOF with the brass staff up in the tree line.  The baritones goofed up something and Dave McKinnon and Doug Thrower were addressing it.  The baritone line dropped for push-ups because... drumcorps and all...

And I'll never forget Doug's response.  He said "No, no no... get up".  And Dave followed with "We are here to fix problems, and that doesn't get us there".

It was a great teaching moment and a demonstration of care for the members and their interests.

That's not to say that the old drumcorps ritual of 'celebrating stupidity' doesn't have it's cultural place at times... but 'tasking' harder is rarely the answer to the underlying problem.

Edited by cfirwin3
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4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

I remember a day working at Canton HOF with the brass staff up in the tree line.  The baritones goofed up something and Dave McKinnon and Doug Thrower were addressing it.  The baritone line dropped for push-ups because... drumcorps and all...

And I'll never forget Doug's response.  He said "No, no no... get up".  And Dave followed with "We are here to fix problems, and that doesn't get us there".

It was a great teaching moment and a demonstration of care for the members and their interests.

That's not to say that the old drumcorps ritual of 'celebrating stupidity' doesn't have it's cultural place at times... but 'tasking' harder is rarely the answer to the underlying problem.

I always thought the push up thing was kinda dopey and I was never in a corps that did that.  I mean, we have military roots but we’re not actually the Marine Corps.  “Drop and give me twenty!” 

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6 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I always thought the push up thing was kinda dopey and I was never in a corps that did that.  I mean, we have military roots but we’re not actually the Marine Corps.  “Drop and give me twenty!” 

The funny thing is that nobody really ever made anyone do it (maybe section leaders or something).  Kids just assumed... it was ingrained in the culture.

We, in the mello line, never did pushups.  But mello lines are universally perfect, of course.

Edited by cfirwin3
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