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What happened to Madison?


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9 hours ago, mjoakes said:

Two common problems stifling so many non-profit organizations are (1) an ED that controls the board, rather than a board that is independent; and (2) poorly managed and poorly communicated finances. I read others discussing these things on DCP, but I don't know that these are Madison's problems.  (And I am not speculating about them here.) Any good outside, non-profit consultant, however, will have her early early radar fine-tuned on both (1) and (2).

Problem (1), BTW, isn't so bad when you have a really effective, visionary ED leading the organization.

Ding. Ding. Ding. 

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3 hours ago, derbydawg said:

Okay. So, I have thought long and hard about this with never finding the impetus, the go-ahead to say what has been on my mind for many years. The sudden and surprising availability to this video (see below)  has given me the go-ahead. The video was so great to see. I teared up without expecting to do such. So, here it is:

If the Madison Scouts find themselves going the way of 2-7, Anaheim Kingsmen, Magic, etc. the fault will largely fall on the shoulders of the many misguided, un-thinking, and self-indulgent alumni, not the current administration. Drum corps alumni are notorious for creating friction, drama, and controversy. Too many of the Madison Scouts alumni are the poster child for all that can be most bad, wrong, destructive, and caustic about corps alumni, and I dare say they demonstrate that they are the worst of all drum corps alumni in these regards. While the reasons for this are complex, much is linked to the overtly preached message of animosity, distrust, and elitism taught to the corps through much of the 1990s and early 2000s. 

I was on staff in 2006. We were reeling from a great season in 2005 and trying to find our next move. When you are 14th four years prior and still trying to be a consistent and a bonified finalist, just four years later, nothing comes easy and perhaps the best thing a guy can hope for is a pat on the back from those who may understand the journey, the work, the unique and special environment that is Scouts itself. 

The week of finals, the powers that be had arranged for the Alumni Project (Madison Scouts Alumni who were to perform at DCI) and the 2006 Scouts to perform for each other at a Madison-Area HS. Sitting in the stands with the alumni while the 2006 version of the Madison Scouts were performing their show, I became more and more uncomfortable and extremely uneasy. The comments from alums regarding the current members were not only negative, but horribly offensive, unfair, uneducated, and threatening toward the performing members. I actually wondered if verbal and physical altercations would take place once the two groups were allowed to interact. Sal Salas (a brilliant and wonderful human being) quickly gathered the staff together and ushered the corps away from the alumni as quickly as possible. Though I did witness some positive interactions between the 2006 Scouts and alumni, I too was concerned and made sure the 2006 Scouts were separated as soon as possible and on our way to a secluded meeting place.

Imagine- You have to stand there explaining to the amazing young people you teach day in and day out that they did a great performance and any animosity they may have heard or seen from alumni was not representative of the majority and that most alumni are actually super cool and supportive (At the time and now looking back, I do not think most were supportive. I was lying to try to counteract the negative interactions our members had experienced). 

Later that night at a Madison-Area bar, several of us on staff were physically threatened- pushed, shoved, asked to fight alumni. It was beyond crazy and such a reminder of the responsibilities we have to teach young people honor and humility, work ethic and service, over popular opinion and suppression. 

That fall, after Sal Salas as corps director was fired and subsequently the entire staff resigned,  the rest is history so to speak. Several years of floundering was followed by the great leadership of Jim Mason. Under his leadership, Scouts were back in finals and a crowd favorite, doing Madison-esque shows but with competitive prowess. Then the alumni again got aggressive and ran the successful design team and instructors off, thinking if they would hire past Scouts members instead, the corps would do better competitively. Well- it is 2019, are your negative actions working for you alumni? That said, I applaud those alumni that remain loyal, introspective and outro-spective, member-centric, and kind. 

The 2006 Madison Scouts were the hardest working corps I have ever taught. Their show was flawed but aggressive, difficult but rewarding, pushing the envelope, but accessible in many ways. There were many obstacles to overcome that season that should not be discussed here. The achievement level demonstrated on this video and finals is astonishing. Doesn’t that count for something? The work ethic and drive of young people that want to not only to be good, but deserve to be good as well is the Scouts way? Is it not?

Alumni, if you think your money, or opinion, or years in the corps somehow entitles you- YOU have 100% missed the point of, MYNWA. Peace.   

 

https://www.facebook.com/james.andrzejek/videos/10150155607901248/UzpfSTEyNDAxMjU3NzE6MTAyMTQ4MDg2NjYzMTA0NjY/

I'm sure it was frustrating listening to Scouts alumni if they were personally attacking and criticizing the marching members. That's inexcusable. If you find any Scouts alumni doing this today, call them out because every other alumnus would like to know who these a#*holes are. I've found the Scouts alumni to be very supportive of the marching members.  

Before gaslighting the alumni, have you done an organizational assessment of the Scout's leadership, strategic planning, customer focus, measurement, analysis, and knowledge management, workforce focus, operations focus, and results (not just competitive)? If so, where are they at as an organization compared to high performing organizations? When you've done that, let's talk about how the Scouts are doing and the root causes of their issues. 

Regarding Sal, who is very talented in many ways and has given a lot to the activity, do you know why he was let go as director? While the facts appear to show Sal was a horrible financial manager, the board was derelict in their oversight duties while Sal was executive director and were ultimately responsible for the organization's financial performance during his tenure. 

Edited by madisonsmiley
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5 hours ago, Stu said:

Somewhere down the line, Instead of teacing many of our youth the nobilities of self sacrafice, honor, delayed gratification, patience, wisdom, consequence, vertue, convent, the true meaning of success, and holding them to that standard, our culture has allowed them to develop their own sense of narcissistic, twitter, Facebook,  Machiavellian, no consequence, immediate gratification no matter what perverted definition of success.

There were Ringchasers in DCA back in the 80's. They just didn't call them that. 

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5 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Is it $5K to march today? Holy crap...

Up to. According to DCI, the average cost is about 3.5K in World Class. Various corps exact various fees and such. My guess is the 5K covers other expenses incurred beyond what one pays to the corps. travel, etc.

Edited by BigW
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5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

No. Their duty and commitment ended the second the season was over. They are no longer bound contractually to return to that corps if they so desire. Your idea only works out in driving kids away. if i marched in the Wabash Cadetaliers and ya know what...the staff was lousy, the food sucked and we didn't get enough rest...and some DCP ######## got a rule passed that says I have to go back there just because i marched there one year? #### that, I'm out of here.

I hate to jump back into this topic, but I agree with this completely.  And I would expand on it, even if the staff were great, the foot succulent, and the rest plentiful, they should have the opportunity to go wherever they wanted the following year.

I am a boomer (one of the first, born in 1946).  What I see now in Drum Corps is exciting and I enjoy much of it. And I think youth of today are a mixed bag, some great, and some not so great.  As were kids in my generation.  

The kids (young people, yadda yadda) today all sign a contract (or their parents do).  I fully expect them to live up to that contract.  And if during the season, the going gets rough, I fully think that they should endure it, give it their all, and even suffer through it.  And from what I have seen, they do for the most part.  That is part of learning commitment and honoring your obligations.  But once their contract is over, surely they have no legal or even moral obligation to continue to march with that same group the following summer (assuming they want to).  

Now if someone (say Stu) wants to start or take over a drum corps, and he wants to initiate a policy that require contracts that stipulate that if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career, I have no problem with it.  But I predict that he will get few takers.  I am also sure that any such contract would not stand legal muster should someone "violate" it.  And there is no specification in the ByLaws of DCI requiring it.  (There is a requirement that you pay your financial obligations to a former corps, which is understandable, and which does teach marchers you honor commitments.)

Now, where would Stu find any moral requirement in requiring a current marcher being required to march the same corps in succeeding summers?  I'm not sure where to look.  Just because, historically, when drum corps was (mostly) local, kids marched the same corps year after year and got dedicated to that corps, I see no moral argument arising.  (Philosophers among us would complain the this is attempting to get an "ought" from an "is".  Doesn't work that way.)  Bringing in the "Little League" example does not work either, since it has specified restrictions in their ByLaws. So, by joining, a kid (or more likely a family) is agreeing to those restrictions.  So you cannot find a moral requirement here either.

Long ago (in 1998) after his first year in HS, my son marched a Div 1 corps and had a great time.  But he had a dream corps (also Div 1) he wanted to march with, so he tried out for that corps and marched a second summer with his dream corps.  I guess Stu would have forbidden that. My son never marched again in his next 5 or 6 years of eligibility for a number of years.  But as he continued his music education, he stayed interested in drum corps, and for the last dozen or so years, he had been on staff of his dream corps.  

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19 hours ago, HolyNOLA said:

 

Maybe it's time for Madison and Rosemont to open up to female membership. 

No.  Just no.  

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2 hours ago, PamahoNow said:

I hate to jump back into this topic, but I agree with this completely.  And I would expand on it, even if the staff were great, the foot succulent, and the rest plentiful, they should have the opportunity to go wherever they wanted the following year.

I am a boomer (one of the first, born in 1946).  What I see now in Drum Corps is exciting and I enjoy much of it. And I think youth of today are a mixed bag, some great, and some not so great.  As were kids in my generation.  

The kids (young people, yadda yadda) today all sign a contract (or their parents do).  I fully expect them to live up to that contract.  And if during the season, the going gets rough, I fully think that they should endure it, give it their all, and even suffer through it.  And from what I have seen, they do for the most part.  That is part of learning commitment and honoring your obligations.  But once their contract is over, surely they have no legal or even moral obligation to continue to march with that same group the following summer (assuming they want to).  

Now if someone (say Stu) wants to start or take over a drum corps, and he wants to initiate a policy that require contracts that stipulate that if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career, I have no problem with it.  But I predict that he will get few takers.  I am also sure that any such contract would not stand legal muster should someone "violate" it.  And there is no specification in the ByLaws of DCI requiring it.  (There is a requirement that you pay your financial obligations to a former corps, which is understandable, and which does teach marchers you honor commitments.)

Now, where would Stu find any moral requirement in requiring a current marcher being required to march the same corps in succeeding summers?  I'm not sure where to look.  Just because, historically, when drum corps was (mostly) local, kids marched the same corps year after year and got dedicated to that corps, I see no moral argument arising.  (Philosophers among us would complain the this is attempting to get an "ought" from an "is".  Doesn't work that way.)  Bringing in the "Little League" example does not work either, since it has specified restrictions in their ByLaws. So, by joining, a kid (or more likely a family) is agreeing to those restrictions.  So you cannot find a moral requirement here either.

Long ago (in 1998) after his first year in HS, my son marched a Div 1 corps and had a great time.  But he had a dream corps (also Div 1) he wanted to march with, so he tried out for that corps and marched a second summer with his dream corps.  I guess Stu would have forbidden that. My son never marched again in his next 5 or 6 years of eligibility for a number of years.  But as he continued his music education, he stayed interested in drum corps, and for the last dozen or so years, he had been on staff of his dream corps.  

Similar requests to the one I proposed to Jeff.

A) Show where I posted that required contracts would stipulate if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career.

B) Show where I posted that it would be 'forbidden' to change corps.

Edited by Stu
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3 hours ago, BigW said:

Up to. According to DCI, the average cost is about 3.5K in World Class. Various corps exact various fees and such. My guess is the 5K covers other expenses incurred beyond what one pays to the corps. travel, etc.

This might be tour fees.  Don’t forget the travel expenses to auditions, monthly camps, and pocket money from November to finals.  If the mm lives on either coast and is contracted with a corps on the opposite coast, I’d guess you’re talking 6K+.

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1 hour ago, Stu said:

Similar requests to the one I proposed to Jeff.

A) Show where I posted that required contracts would stipulate if you march here, you must march here the rest of your career.

B) Show where I posted that it would be 'forbidden' to change corps.

Demonstrate to us how being forbidden to sit a year to change corps is not a significant impedance to members' ability to march.

Also demonstrate to us that members would be guaranteed slots if they returned, instead of having to audition the following year.

Members commit to march at a corps for one year. That's what's contracted. The contracts you're stipulating would basically be equivalent to implementing the old MLB reserve clause--which, if I recall correctly, you quoted yourself as being firmly against. I fail to see why something that got pushed out of sports where the performers (which, let's face it, professional athletes are) are compensated for their time and effort should be applied to an activity where the performers compensate the activity for their time and effort.

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On 6/29/2019 at 11:17 PM, Jeff Ream said:

it's a dog eat dog world, and Madison's last 15 years have basically had them wearing milk bone underwear

Any time someone uses this quote, correctly I might add, gets an immediate thumbs up from me.

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