exitmusic Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Stu said: Oh, and I never had any student loan debt. Recived academic scholarship and worked full time; graduated with a 3.89 GPA. Take care. Back to DCI discussion. And God Speed to ya. How wonderful for you! Must have been nice. This is simply not achievable today, thanks largely in part to the boomers' gutting of the economy from about 1981 - 1992. You got yours. Now you're out here telling us how we need to march at one band because REASONS. YOu're a walking Old Economy Steve. I wasn't talking about how much student debt you owe, I was talking about how much you profit off of the student debt of the kids you bemoan in your earlier posts. (Spoiler alert: You own a lot more of it than you think you do.) You're welcome for the free money! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, HolyNOLA said: The eating is subjective. We ate very well at the second corps I marched for. I can't see how it could have gotten any better. And housing. Are corps not staying in high school gyms anymore? You keep leaving out things like extra instrumentation, staff, props, etc. These things can directly be tied to rising costs. Again, it's not fuel. The high schools charge substantially more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 And props don't cost that much. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Stu said: Nope. You missed the option which would in fact allow direct season to season WC to WC transfer. If a member transfers from WC-x- to WC-a- the very next season, WC-a- would pay compensation to WC-x-. It is called restricted free agency. It deters WC-a- from pilfering talent from WC-x and using WC-x- as a feeder. So what if the corps the MM wants to go to is further down the totem pole and has less money, to the point they cannot afford a transfer fee to the possibly more well off corps the MM is departing from? Say an MM wants to depart a financially stable top 2 corps for a less "wealthy" 15th place corps. Specific reason notwithstanding. Are you saying that MM sits out for a year? Well that is what you are saying and that is not fair to the MM. IMO the only obligation the MM has to the corps they are departing, is that all monies owed are paid & all equipment returned, whether they go to a WC or OC corps. The corps the MM is going to, cannot not allow the MM to march a competitive show during the season unless the MM is clear of the debt. The debt can be cleared any number of ways but it should be cleared. That would be my stipulation for a kid moving from one corps to another. Oh and a MM cannot move once the season starts. A transfer fee is not needed. It is not servitude not is it the NCAA school athletics transfer situation either. As far as pilfering an MM? How does one pilfer a person? Is that like kidnapping? Is can any OC corps not directly part of another WC organization be thought of or used as a "feeder" corps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyNOLA Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said: The high schools charge substantially more now. Ok I'll take your word on this even though no numbers were provided. Let's say the costs of necessities (spring training, tour housing) have risen exponentially over the last 15 years. What have the corps done to try and offset these costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, MikeN said: And props don't cost that much. Mike You are right. Props are cheap. But if you are concerned about safety then it's the pesky engineering and professional fabrication that drive the cost up. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, HolyNOLA said: Ok I'll take your word on this even though no numbers were provided. Let's say the costs of necessities (spring training, tour housing) have risen exponentially over the last 15 years. What have the corps done to try and offset these costs? The same things they’ve always done, I imagine. Most corps management teams aren’t just asleep at the wheel. Housing prices are higher because school districts are now more concerned with things like insurance and minimizing their liability if something should happen in a wide open gymnasium housing 150+ young people, some underage, overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Corps Guy Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 34 minutes ago, jeffmolnar said: The high schools charge substantially more now. That all depends on how you work with the high schools. Over the past several years, I have hosted multiple corps and worked with the school administration to have a successful stay for both the corps and the school. The approach is to use it as a learning experience for the students of the high school. When students have an opportunity to see how their early marching days can advance to "Marching Music's Major League" they learn and become motivated to improve. Most years, we didn't charge the corps anything and only a few times did we charge just to cover salary for the custodians if they weren't already scheduled to work that day. We also worked with the corps to have "Open Rehearsals" where we sold concessions and actually made some money for the band program. On a few occasions, the corps even opened up their souvenir tent and made some money. It is all in how you approach the administration in the first place. Once you get a good consensus, corps don't get hit with the major expense of housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, HolyNOLA said: Ok I'll take your word on this even though no numbers were provided. Let's say the costs of necessities (spring training, tour housing) have risen exponentially over the last 15 years. What have the corps done to try and offset these costs? Not to be snarky but why does it seem you think things cost nothing? Are you aware at all what it costs to put a top tier corps on the road? First start with the numbers traveling and think of all associated costs that it requires. Here is a breakdown of what is on the road (not even considering managing several audition and teaching camps). (4) 18 wheelers for equipment, props and food (food trailer alone is around $250K). Corps own trailers but lease tractors (6) coach buses (leased) for 154 MM's, 60 or more teaching staff and volunteers. Souvie truck/trailer Fuel for the above: budget diesel for 10 vehicles getting about 6mpg for 10,000 miles each at $3/gallon (around $50K) Auxiliary vehicle for daily runs to store, hospital, etc., etc. Cost/salaries of design team and techs (some are not stipends but actual salaries) truck drivers, doctor, PT's, chef/cooks (yes these people get paid in some org's.) Cost to bring corps MM's, staff, volunteers to and from the tour Food: ST thru finals at 3 meals/day plus snacks (a few times MM's get something on the road themselves). But with the food comes plates, cups, plasticware, cleaning supplies, tin foil, cooking equipment, storage equipment, etc., etc. Uniform/costume maintenance Instruments/props (not all instruments are donated to corps by manufacturers), 4 wheelers, electronic metronomes, front ensemble equipment (instruments and protective gear for weather) Insurances for owned vehicles, for MM's &staff. (huge) Rights to music 4-6 audition camps in several different cities over the winter; 4 -5 monthly camps for the show, ST payments to college/s used, fees to local High schools housing and facilities on the road, and if a HS is not available (as this is getting harder to find) local hotel/motels (when in Indy). Just think what these costs are and you can see why in some corps the yearly fees run as high as $5K - $6K when all is said and done. That is why an MM's experience better be good if you want retainage. Lastly think that MM fees are in the neighborhood of $770,000. This does not cover the cost of all that they get and tour with. Hope this sheds a little light on this for you and I am not as close as others are to the actual costs for top tier groups. I am sure many are less but I would have not doubt what the MM's get is a reduced experience with not so great housing, rehearsal sites, busses and trucks, food (especially food). It is not a little bit of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmolnar Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, LabMaster said: Not to be snarky but why does it seem you think things cost nothing? Are you aware at all what it costs to put a top tier corps on the road? First start with the numbers traveling and think of all associated costs that it requires. Here is a breakdown of what is on the road (not even considering managing several audition and teaching camps). (4) 18 wheelers for equipment, props and food (food trailer alone is around $250K). Corps own trailers but lease tractors (6) coach buses (leased) for 154 MM's, 60 or more teaching staff and volunteers. Souvie truck/trailer Fuel for the above: budget diesel for 10 vehicles getting about 6mpg for 10,000 miles each at $3/gallon (around $50K) Auxiliary vehicle for daily runs to store, hospital, etc., etc. Cost/salaries of design team and techs (some are not stipends but actual salaries) truck drivers, doctor, PT's, chef/cooks (yes these people get paid in some org's.) Cost to bring corps MM's, staff, volunteers to and from the tour Food: ST thru finals at 3 meals/day plus snacks (a few times MM's get something on the road themselves). But with the food comes plates, cups, plasticware, cleaning supplies, tin foil, cooking equipment, storage equipment, etc., etc. Uniform/costume maintenance Instruments/props (not all instruments are donated to corps by manufacturers), 4 wheelers, electronic metronomes, front ensemble equipment (instruments and protective gear for weather) Insurances for owned vehicles, for MM's &staff. (huge) Rights to music 4-6 audition camps in several different cities over the winter; 4 -5 monthly camps for the show, ST payments to college/s used, fees to local High schools housing and facilities on the road, and if a HS is not available (as this is getting harder to find) local hotel/motels (when in Indy). Just think what these costs are and you can see why in some corps the yearly fees run as high as $5K - $6K when all is said and done. That is why an MM's experience better be good if you want retainage. Lastly think that MM fees are in the neighborhood of $770,000. This does not cover the cost of all that they get and tour with. Hope this sheds a little light on this for you and I am not as close as others are to the actual costs for top tier groups. I am sure many are less but I would have not doubt what the MM's get is a reduced experience with not so great housing, rehearsal sites, busses and trucks, food (especially food). It is not a little bit of stuff. I think their argument is that we had all of those same obligations 15 years ago and tuition was substantially cheaper — despite higher fuel prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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