Madison Scouts now officially co-ed

[MikeD]

1 minute ago, Brian Tuma said:

I would wager the vast majority of the people who did so are dead considering it was 50 years ago. 

There was a lot of internal strife when the girl guard was added for 1969, many of the gals coming to Garfield from the newly disbanded Little Falls Cadets. The women went through a lot of "stuff"in the beginning. Ended up being a great move, as guards were becoming more integral parts of shows. Helped the corps grow back into a top level corps by 1971, just prior to DCI, placing 6th at the World Open and 7th at VFW Nats..

[Brian Tuma]

1 hour ago, Tim K said:

First of all, drum corps overall is inclusive and in some areas has been ahead of society in inclusivity, but the activity often refers to itself as “educational.” People often say they “taught” at certain corps, etc., but drum corps are given a pass where many educational opportunities would not get the same pass. For example:

Suppose a young woman did not want to wear a color guard uniform she believed was immodest and believed this for religious reasons? 

A hijab could probably be worn and not cause an issue, but what if a young marcher wore a burka and had to have separate sleeping accommodations and eating accommodations because her Muslim faith prohibited her eating with men who are not biological  brothers?

What if a marching member was a Hasidic Jew who believed lifting an instrument and practicing and performing from sundown on Friday until sunrise on Sunday was breaking the Sabbath?

Suppose a talented young person did not audition well the same way a student does not test well.

Most of us would probably say a corps has the prerogative to say it can’t accommodate these situations, but most educational settings, public or private, could not do the same thing.

i point these things out because I learned from my time in the classroom, which was  at an inner city Catholic school in one of Boston’s most challenging areas, at a school of a parish that once sponsored one of the most beloved drum corps of the 1960’s, that being inclusive often means taking baby steps, confronting your own fears and biases, and moving forward. So let’s avoid putting down those who may disagree with Madison’s decision and give time to get used to it, because it may not be due to believing in gender discrimination, and to those who seem to enjoy arguing the point, to some, drum corps may not be as inclusive as we think.

I’m afraid those aren’t good examples you cited. Think about how Hasidic and conservative Muslim communities interact with secular society. They avoid it at all costs and keep things amongst themselves which is totally their right.  I highly doubt they would let any of their children be a part of something like drum corps where they aren’t able to monitor their every interaction. 

[FlamMan]

4 minutes ago, Brian Tuma said:

I’m afraid those aren’t good examples you cited. Think about how Hasidic and conservative Muslim communities interact with secular society. They avoid it at all costs and keep things amongst themselves which is totally their right.  I highly doubt they would let any of their children be a part of something like drum corps where they aren’t able to monitor their every interaction. 

Not to mention that they literally kill people for being gay. 

[ThePlanets]

1 hour ago, MusicManNJ said:

I do not see why Madison's decision should in any way implicate what Cavies should or should not do. The Cavies are able to govern themselves as they see fit based on their own history, strategy and governance. If they chose to do nothing (stay all-male) they are entitled to that choice. Madison's choice is Madison's choice (made by their board which is their right to do). I do not see this as any grand societal gesture of inclusion and more of a move to try to changes directions on an organization going in the wrong one. The debate should be about Madison's choice. The Cavies have nothing to do with it.

This is true- but the decision makes the Cavaliers completely unique now. This could help them since they now offer a completely unique experience or it could inadvertently put pressure on them to make changes too. 

So while this is about the Madison Scouts it does impact the Cavaliers.

As I have said before the decision is completely up to these private organizations and I would hope that it stays that way. I think autonomy is important.

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by ThePlanets

[Cappybara]

6 hours ago, Incognito365 said:

Alright y'all, the **** is getting deep in here.

Thank God I already have my ****kickers on!

I'm gonna head towards the door. Have fun!

Didn't mean to scare ya off 

[GREENBLUE]

21 minutes ago, Brian Tuma said:

I’m afraid those aren’t good examples you cited. Think about how Hasidic and conservative Muslim communities interact with secular society. They avoid it at all costs and keep things amongst themselves which is totally their right.  I highly doubt they would let any of their children be a part of something like drum corps where they aren’t able to monitor their every interaction. 

Not to mention the all the barely clothed bodies during rehearsals as well as locker rooms, gym floors, buses, etc...

[Cappybara]

4 hours ago, Jake W. said:

There are 22 WC corps in which a young man can march. There are 21 WC corps in which a young woman can march. I'll say it for a third time: if I take my band to a show and a talented young female trumpet player tells me she wants to march Cavies because she loved them, I tell her unfortunately she can't audition because she's a woman. I tell a young man of equal talent & ambition that he is free to audition for any of the corps he saw that night. Does it need to be like that?

By the way, Greenblue, you never responded early when you attempted to find hypocrisy with my point, but I think it's equally as problematic with Xmen guard & Phantom's guard the Juliet year. If I have a talented male performer in color guard, I think he should also be able to audition for all 22 WC color guards. IDGAF about your design choices. No WC corps should be turning away a talented, hard working kid with a good attitude based solely on the kid's gender. I do believe that includes Cavies & Scouts.

Who cares? These are private organizations no one is entitled, male or female, to be in them. You tell that girl there are 21 other corps that she can audition for and have a great summer 

[kkrepps]

Hi folks! Wow, I've got a lot of reading to catch up on, 26 pages of thread in less than 10 hours!

This must be the friendliest place on DCP. 

[ThePlanets]

4 hours ago, ThePlanets said:

Let me sum up this thread for those that don't want to read 18 pages of talking in circles.

A. Some posters are in complete support of Madisons decision to be gender inclusive.

B. Some posters believe that regardless of this decision it will not fix the deeper issues in the organization.

C. Some posters are upset about this decision and think that it will be detrimental to the corps identity.

Groups A,B, and C argue with one another for 19 pages.

Let me catch you up @kkrepps 

Just change the 19 to 26 and add more fuel to the fire

[jjeffeory]

3 hours ago, GREENBLUE said:

Over dramatic much???

hey all you Cavaliers and parents of Cavaliers out there “Hope you never have a daughter or kids or a wife because you don’t want the corps to go co-ed”. Unbelievable.

One of my Cavalier brothers has 2 daughters who are both happily marching Colts this year, and he's happily supporting both corps. No issues .