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Michael Boo

Positive thoughts about Madison Scouts' future

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1 hour ago, ndkbass said:

A couple thoughts in response to your post: I think you need to provide some statistics to back up your claim that there is a "growing lack of stable father figures in homes across America."  That is a very specific claim that seems coded in many ways.  As an academic who studies these things, I would argue that that is not actually the case.  I also take issue with your use of equality as you define it via context.  Separate is not inherently equal.  It is, in fact, completely the opposite.  See the landmark 1954 Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board or current equal pay issues in women's professional sports (in particular the U.S. women's national team, which sells more jersey's and performs better than the U.S. men's national team, but receives a fraction of the pay).  Sure, there are physical or biological differences between the sexes, but patriarchy is a social construction, and there is a vast difference between biological sex, gender identity, and sexuality in how it is both theorized and understood.  Understanding power dynamics and systems or structures of inequality is more important to this conversation than arbitrary definitions of gender or equality.  We are also discussing private entities, not government or public entities.  This means that they can set their own policies, and that does not prevent you or anyone else from establishing their own gender segregated activities or organizations if they so wish as long as they are not doing so with public funds.  Madison going coed is not "dissolving the distinction between the two," it is simply recognizing that as a private organization they wish to be inclusive to all those who are interested in auditioning regardless of gender identity.  This is not saying their cannot be all male corps or even all female corps.  It is just a decision made by a private entity to update their own membership policy.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for responding, ndkbass! I hope the mods don't close this discussion, because I think it's very important to have.  🙂

Since you asked...

19.7 million children in the US (about 1/4) according to the Census Bureau, live without a biological, step, or adoptive father in the home.  https://www.fatherhood.org/fatherhood-data-statistics  Even if this statistic is off, I personally believe it, since as a teacher over the last 11 years I've seen a dramatic rise in my area of kids who don't have decent male role models at home.  Anecdotal, sure, but indicative of a larger trend.  

I think your point concerning the pay issues for women vs. men in prof. sports is a red herring, but I'll counter anyway.  The disparity is due to revenue, not patriarchy (in my opinion).  Women players actually make a higher percentage share of the revenue their games generate then the male players do.  (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/#446e277c6da4)  Maintaining patriarchal societies isn't a goal for the vast majority of folks... they simply watch what they want to watch, and networks interested in a profit are going to show what they think the most people will watch.  Sure, this can (and has!) change over time, but to force this to change is to give up our capitalistic way of life.... and that, my friend, would not be pleasant. 

Anyway, back to the Scouts.  

I did not say that Madison going coed is dissolving the distinction between the two, as you misquoted.  I said having BOTH a Girl AND a Boy Scouts is important, as an example.  (btw, in case you're interested, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-17/boy-scouts-are-just-scouts-now-and-that-s-making-girl-scouts-mad).  

You said that "this is a decision made by a private entity to update their own membership policy." I affirmed this in my original post!  We agree on this! 🙂 So why imply that I don't understand "power dynamics and systems or structures of inequality" being important to this conversation?  Surely just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand.  Private entities, like the Scouts, are entitled to their decisions. 

My singular point of the post was to mourn the loss of the option for a young man to grow and mature amongst other boys and men within the drum corps paradigm.  

And the Madison Scouts will not be worse off by any means.  Again, I point to the Cadets; they went coed, and it's been great for them since.  I'm sure Madison will be no different.

Yet the experience for future Scouts will be different than the one experienced before the change. 

And boys wanting or needing an all-male experience will have one less place to go.  

   

 

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From the first time I saw Madison in 1975 to the current year: What comes to mind is all the great music they have performed over the years.  I think of “MacArthur Park”, “New York New York”, “Malagueña”, “Empire State of Mind”, “Strawberry Soup,” “Star Wars”, “Malaga” “Carmen”... Decades and Decades of entertaining shows...Jazz charts,...Show tunes...I guess I have never really thought of them in terms of an all male corps.  I remember the moving company front in “Reframed”.  The mallets in “Dueling Banjos”,   The duet in “Empire State of Mind”,  The soloist in “ The Way We Were”,  “Officer Krupke”, “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, “Backlash”, the Alumni Performance.... They have brought such a wealth of joy over the years.  Wish them the best.

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There is something lost and something gained in living every day....................Madison will remain one of the reasons I love this activity !!!

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15 hours ago, HouserCD said:

From the first time I saw Madison in 1975 to the current year: What comes to mind is all the great music they have performed over the years.  I think of “MacArthur Park”, “New York New York”, “Malagueña”, “Empire State of Mind”, “Strawberry Soup,” “Star Wars”, “Malaga” “Carmen”... Decades and Decades of entertaining shows...Jazz charts,...Show tunes...I guess I have never really thought of them in terms of an all male corps.  I remember the moving company front in “Reframed”.  The mallets in “Dueling Banjos”,   The duet in “Empire State of Mind”,  The soloist in “ The Way We Were”,  “Officer Krupke”, “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, “Backlash”, the Alumni Performance.... They have brought such a wealth of joy over the years.  Wish them the best.

I think there's a certain aspect of what's said here that resonates with me. Maybe one classifies the corps as being traditionally very hard-hitting, very physical, the typical/traditional "male" attributes. After watching the end of the US/England Women's World Cup match, I believe people can safely say that those terms aren't exclusive to men anymore nor should they be. Women who think the corps is the right place for them will audition, and I think will make a real contribution to its success.

 

Will this solve every issue with the corps that has been alluded to in many threads? Probably not, but it could be a very positive start towards it. I hope so.

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On 7/8/2019 at 9:36 PM, ranintothedoor said:

I point to the Cadets; they went coed,

A significant proportion of the "Old" DCI and DCA corps were originally all-male and then transitioned starting in the mid-late 60's in through the mid late 70's due to recruiting issues. They all got through it in good shape for the vast majority.

Edited by BigW

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I have always loved the Scouts and will continue to love that corps, just like most on here. I am glad they made a tough decision. Not easy to do. Will it work? Nobody knows, and if they say they know they are just guessing. I hope it works out. I actually love their show this year. So old school. They just need to clean and execute a bit better, but that is a fun show. Go Madison Scouts! And welcome to all the young ladies who join in the coming years. I know you will bring amazing things to this organization. 

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On 7/8/2019 at 3:51 PM, madscout96 said:

Now when you see the Madison Scouts this summer, you’ll know you’ll be seeing the “Men of Madison” for the last time.  

Why?  They are not going all-female.

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I am really looking forward to seeing what happens next with the Madison Scouts.  I am supportive of them no matter if they stay all male or go co-ed.  I just really enjoy watching their shows.  

Have to comment about the no dad in the home “statistic.”  My dad passed away when I was five; my siblings and I grew up without a “decent male role model” and turned out just fine.  My mother worked very hard and did the best she could in a very tough situation.  Would it have been better if my dad had been around? Probably not as he was quite flawed in many ways.  But what I think is more important is how men have really stepped into roles as caregivers.  It is amazing to see how men have become much more involved in family life.  Quite a lovely change from the days when the roles were much more separate.  

Edited by Sasha1
Typo
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