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"All they do is stand around and play!!!" A Comparison


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Things that also need to be considered that make modern shows more complex and more challenging for the performers.

  1. The guard. You can't even compare the physicality and complexity of what guards bring to shows now compared to the late 80's-90's
  2. All performers responsibilities and range of efforts regarding expressive changes. Not only musically but through the body, performance quality and choreography.
  3. Style changes both musically and through the performance qualities and responsibilities of the performers.

I'm sure there is more but IMHO they are not comparable in terms of complexity both musically and visually and performer responsibility and physicality. That doesn't make one better than the other and both are highly enjoyable. Modern day drum corps is a completely different animal that what we saw in the 80's and 90's. 

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1 hour ago, Spatzzz said:

Things that also need to be considered that make modern shows more complex and more challenging for the performers.

  1. The guard. You can't even compare the physicality and complexity of what guards bring to shows now compared to the late 80's-90's
  2. All performers responsibilities and range of efforts regarding expressive changes. Not only musically but through the body, performance quality and choreography.
  3. Style changes both musically and through the performance qualities and responsibilities of the performers.

I'm sure there is more but IMHO they are not comparable in terms of complexity both musically and visually and performer responsibility and physicality. That doesn't make one better than the other and both are highly enjoyable. Modern day drum corps is a completely different animal that what we saw in the 80's and 90's. 

That's all true, but a major point is that the relationship between drill and music has not changed all that much.  It's more interesting (in my mind) to note the manner by which playing and movement were managed via the same design devices back in the day as they are currently.

Edited by cfirwin3
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58 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

We can work through 2017 on another day.  But I contend that the general observations hold up.

Edit:

They easily hold up:

https://youtu.be/FO6d8zDf1Hg

 

You said that the box rotation in the opener for '91 Star was the hardest thing they did all show. What would you say the hardest thing is that BD did in 2017 drill-wise?

 

Edit: I'm asking for an example from 2017, because I think that their 2014 show has many exposed visual moments in their drill while the 2017 show does not have nearly as many. I already know my answer, but it would be interesting to hear another opinion on this.

Edited by Tupid_06
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Star didn't use flugelhorns.

Very interesting take. I'll agree with about 80 percent of what you've said, but I don't feel that you enough credit for some of what Star was playing in that show and also I think the third valve is a trivial addition to give credit for using as most of the brass are used to that anyway. Sorry trombones.

The counter motion and block drill issue is particular to Star and Zingali. Had you'd show a Brubaker or Gaines/Cavalier drill, you'd see more of that. Even Madison Scouts had much more block drill back then. Zingali was much more know for organic and curvilinear visuals.

The show arrangement comments are pretty specific to how Jim Prime writes and interprets the source versus how  Glyde/Downey et al arrange music.

 

2014 is quite different design aesthetic from this year for sure.  The visual part has changed yet again, possibly due to SCV and WGIs influence.

Thanks for your thoughts. They're entertaining and informative.

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Just now, jjeffeory said:

Very interesting take. I'll agree with about 80 percent of what you've said, but I don't feel that you enough credit for some of what Star was playing in that show and also I think the third valve is a trivial addition to give credit for using as most of the brass are used to that anyway. Sorry trombones.

In fact, isn't it true that the fewer valves you have, the harder it can be to play the same passage of music? Also, since most American students going back decades have learned brass on Bb instruments, wasn't there an added degree of difficulty in having to switch to G bugles? Additionally, weren't even three-valved G bugles generally harder to control than Bb instruments?

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3 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

In fact, isn't it true that the fewer valves you have, the harder it can be to play the same passage of music? Also, since most American students going back decades have learned brass on Bb instruments, wasn't there an added degree of difficulty in having to switch to G bugles? Additionally, weren't even three-valved G bugles generally harder to control than Bb instruments?

That's my experience. It takes a while to get used to the difference in playing even on a 3 valve G.

In this case Star never switch to 3 valve G horns even after they were legalized 

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You certainly can't use the "tricks" and alt fingerings on a 2 valved instrument to play something difficult or repetitive that you can with a 3 valved instrument.  

Edited by jjeffeory
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6 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

In fact, isn't it true that the fewer valves you have, the harder it can be to play the same passage of music? Also, since most American students going back decades have learned brass on Bb instruments, wasn't there an added degree of difficulty in having to switch to G bugles? Additionally, weren't even three-valved G bugles generally harder to control than Bb instruments?

Harder to arrange with less valves. Never played Bb horns to compare with G but older piston/rotors were harder to control. Horns build more musically now.

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Just now, JimF-LowBari said:

Harder to arrange with less valves. Never played Bb horns to compare with G but older piston/rotors were harder to control. Horns build more musically now.

Yeah, I was thinking of, by comparison, how Mozart's horn concertos, written for natural (i.e., valveless) horns, are usually played by modern valved horns -- and they use the valves to hit the notes.

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1 minute ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Yeah, I was thinking of, by comparison, how Mozart's horn concertos, written for natural (i.e., valveless) horns, are usually played by modern valved horns -- and they use the valves to hit the notes.

As you go higher on either instrument key, you tend to not use the 3rd valve anyway unless it's an alternative fingering.

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