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"Stop standing around! That's not how this works!" (Another Show Comparison)


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This reminds me of listening to judges tapes, which I actually enjoy! Thanks for this. One thing we must consider in addition to the musical talent (or those who are musically educated vs. not) is the physicality of today's corps compared to years ago. BD gets a lot of flack for not playing enough and just running around from set to set. But have you ever tried running a lap and then picking up your horn to play a soft ballad? Not easy, at least not easy to play well. The cardiovascular conditioning these kids go through, even (and maybe especially) during the off-season, is off the charts. I aged out in the late 90's and I agree with Stu, I for sure wouldn't make the cut in a corps today. Hell, I'm not sure I'd even do well in today's competitive marching bands.

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Wait.

Did corps not do cardio conditioning until recently?

I mean, when I marched we did it daily, and I know of at least one other corps that says that they did it too. I just assumed that everyone did cardio as part of their warmups/morning routine....

 

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2 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

Wait.

Did corps not do cardio conditioning until recently?

I mean, when I marched we did it daily, and I know of at least one other corps that says that they did it too. I just assumed that everyone did cardio as part of their warmups/morning routine....

 

as far as I know, they all do

 

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Just now, bluecoats88 said:

as far as I know, they all do

 

The question was DID they not do cardio. What I was reading came across as if doing cardio was something new and not something that was done in the past.

Did Bluecoats do cardio when you marched? I know several members from that time, and I never thought to ask them.

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4 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

Wait.

Did corps not do cardio conditioning until recently?

I mean, when I marched we did it daily, and I know of at least one other corps that says that they did it too. I just assumed that everyone did cardio as part of their warmups/morning routine....

 

Not at the same level. I can't speak for your corps, but we (BD) did the daily running block and before tour started we did quite a bit of conditioning such as wind-sprints, hill runs, etc. But today the kids are busting their butts in the off-season to stay in shape year-round with much more intense exercise programs such as cross-fit. Sorry for the confusion. Didn't mean to imply we were all lazy and out of shape. 🙂

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Just now, jjeffeory said:

The question was DID they not do cardio. What I was reading came across as if doing cardio was something new and not something that was done in the past.

Did Bluecoats do cardio when you marched? I know several members from that time, and I never thought to ask them.

we did basic stretching, but I believe the horn line did running block, so yeah some in the bluecoats did cardio back in my day.  although I would have to say carrying around those Ludwig basses was plenty of cardio...lol  mostly the cardio the drumline got was from running chunks of the show over and over on a field or on a track.

 

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As for commenting on these two FANTASTIC shows, below are my thoughts.

  • Both shows are incredible and two of the legendary shows in DCI history, even with BD's '17 production being relatively young.
  • Both shows were/are the model for the activity at their time. BD's 17 show represents a style that many other corps are trying to copy in today's activity. A few corps have found their own unique version of this style, which I feel really began with BD in 2008. Corps like the Bluecoats, Crown, SCV, Cavaliers, and now Boston seem to have made nice transitions to a unique version of this style. The Bluecoats, to me, have further defined their own style with the way they have used props and electronics, not to mention uniforms, that i believe has even surpassed BD in that regard. This is most noticeable in 2014, 15, 16, and 17.  And a real jazz show as well in 2018.
  • Both corps perform extremely well (back to BD and Cadets)
  • Both shows were fan friendly. BD gets some criticism over the years for not being very fan friendly, but that has not been the case from 2014 and on. The 2017 show rocked the dome in Indy, just as Cadets rocked the house in Madison in 1987 (and so did SCV).

Specific Comments on the Two Shows:

Garfield Cadets 1987

  • Cadets brass and field percussion are playing more. The music source material, as you noted, is from one composer and one piece.
  • In this era of drum corps (and band) it was typical to write the music first and craft the visual to work with the music. Think of the music being like the movie in a theater, and the visual drill was more like the music soundtrack, but to the music. This was the typical way to develop a show back in the day. This is different today.
  • Garfield's music is really arranged like a transcription of the orchestral ballet. Phrases are longer than what we typically hear today, and dramatic builds are more defined and given time to develop. 
  • Brass line definitely needed endurance to play the book considering the time they had the horns to their faces.
  • Battery percussion is playing and marching a lot.
  • The responsibility of the pit is solid, but not overwhelming or nearly as diverse in instrumentation as we see today.
  • The visual program is very demanding, especially for that time. But Zingali gives us more. It isn't just about demand and velocity. He gives us Art, beauty, perhaps one of the most aesthetically pleasing and polished visual books in DCI History. In addition to this being a terrific music book by Michael Klesch and who ever did percussion (I forget), the visual actually conveys the music as well as the music does. The drill moves when it needs to, pauses when it needs to, picks up velocity at the right moments,. and uses curves, angles, depth and width to paint the music to the field. They are not marching a routine for the sake of doing something hard. 
  • It should be noted that we do not see many shows today that utilize the 2-step, and even 1-step intervals that you frequently see in this show. 
  • The company front hit point and the following development of a dissolve (tension) and rebuild of the front (release) combine for one of the great impact moments in DCI History, certainly for the 80s and 90s. 
  • When I saw this show I don't think I was worried about demand or velocity or how high some kid could play, etc. I walked out of the stadium realizing that I had seen a work of art like never before...and nothing else mattered. Their score and placement did not matter. SCV was just as good. But the artistic quality to Garfield in 1987 is sure to be remembered by any and all who ever saw the show live, and perhaps even on video. 

Comments on BD 2017 coming in a little...

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22 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:

The question was DID they not do cardio. What I was reading came across as if doing cardio was something new and not something that was done in the past.

Did Bluecoats do cardio when you marched? I know several members from that time, and I never thought to ask them.

What era did the cardio start is my question. Hell people were just learning about this thing called aerobics back in my day. Don’t think term cardio was used unless it was connected with “gram”.

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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46 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

We must also disregard the notion that just because a corps has more music majors makes it more talented. I knew plenty of non-music majors in college who were vastly better players than many of the majors. There are kids that can pick up an instrument and in one summer of hard work do amazing things.  This was one of the great aspects to drum corps. 

Great subject to discuss. Thanks to the OP for the topic.

I'm actually going to disagree here ---- you are correct that music majors aren't necessarily more talented, but in terms of brass players, your music majors are going to be exponentially better prepared than your non-music major MMs, and that's pretty invaluable. I graduated 8 years ago, so things might have changed since then, but the school of music I was at (and I assume most are similar) held music education/technology/performance students all to the same or similar performance & jury requirements and basic music course loads; it was the direction of upper level courses that differed between the degrees. So, private lessons as an actual class each semester with (usually) a doctor of performance, x requirements of music history courses, x requirements of music theory courses, x requirements of both large ensembles & small ensembles (trios/quartets/quintets/family-specific choirs), typically 2 years required of sight reading & aural/ear training, etc. All of those performance opportunities and the class requirements simply make for a musician that's exponentially more well-rounded and better trained, even if a non-music major MM has more raw talent & ability.That bleeds into not only learning new music & skills on the fly, but also into basic things that talent doesn't affect --- intonation, tone quality, awareness of the ensemble as a whole, awareness of your passage within the ensemble, musical direction of a line, etc. This is of course much less consequential with percussionists, as traditional/orchestral percussion training often has very little to do with anything on a marching field (which is too bad, but that's another topic for another day), and then completely non-consequential when talking about color guard members. In each case, WGI training is vastly more important than majoring in music, as it should be.

The only reason I bring up this counter argument to your point, jwillis, is because it's interesting to me to see the shift over the years from what was once anecdotally a backyard activity (I wasn't around then, but this is what everyone portrays ---- bring your friends for the summer and we'll teach 'em what to do!) to something that is now identified as an activity for young adults wanting to be professional musicians or performers. Not every member, of course, or even close...but the activity seems to me (again, anecdotally) to have made that major shift in purpose over the decades. And you can hear it, too; corps today generally have much more musicality & light years better tone quality than corps of 30 years ago. As mentioned, this has to do with the instruments themselves, but I also think it has to do with the shift in the purpose of the activity.

I do agree, this is a really interesting topic & discussion. Thank you, @cfirwin3!

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