"Stop standing around! That's not how this works!" (Another Show Comparison)

[Jeff Ream]

very well done

[jordsterr]

9 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

Do keep in mind, however, that these corps were playing on G bugles. Even music majors had to adjust to G and reading the clef the right way.  Also, I do agree with the majority that across the board the talent is higher today. There is no doubt about that. The depth of the TOP corps today in each section is better. But I do caution people who think Garfield, or other corps, did not have super talent. There has been a general regard being tossed around that Garfield/The Cadets did not have a lot of talent but just worked hard and had great design. This is really a false presumption. Maybe they did not have BD talent (then again who did back in the day?) but I'd say Garfield/The Cadets from the 80s to the early 2000s were as talented as most corps out there...maybe more so. We must also disregard the notion that just because a corps has more music majors makes it more talented. I knew plenty of non-music majors in college who were vastly better players than many of the majors. There are kids that can pick up an instrument and in one summer of hard work do amazing things.  This was one of the great aspects to drum corps. 

Great subject to discuss. Thanks to the OP for the topic.

Lots to agree with here.  However, having been in that line, it is true that we had some folks who were just learning how to play.  There were some music majors back then, and I was one of the few.  There were also some non-majors who played VERY well.  But there were a number of folks who were young or woodwind transfers.  My seatmate was a great guy who was a high school tenor sax player who was learning how to play 3rd baritone.  It was good that we only had two valves back then!  To top it off, I was told at the time that we had the oldest horns in the top 12.  I don't know that it's actually true, but we certainly did have our share of chrome plated DEGs held together with tape and a prayer.  I marched at Star of Indiana before Garfield, and the transition from those wonderful old Kings to the DEGs was a thing!  All that said, we worked really hard.  I don't know if we just wanted to or if they "inspired" us to.  LOL

At any rate, not a huge deal to play in G.  In reality, if you're a soprano playing a high C, it's really only a G. It doesn't feel like it, but it's true.  You just had to get your head (and ear) around it.  The bigger challenge was for us low brass guys getting used to treble clef like the brass band folks, including the contras.  For music majors who had already spent a little time figuring out trumpet fingerings, it was fine.

Nice wandering down memory lane.

[jordsterr]

3 hours ago, StuStu said:

As we talk about evolution, keep in mind that Jeff Saktig and Jon Vanderkolff both marched in the '87 Cadets, and Leon May followed in '88.

The spirit of innovation that drove the '87 Cadets continues to shape DCI today. 

For. Real.

[cfirwin3]

6 hours ago, frachel said:

For the horn players here, here's the early lead sop music from '87 to give you an idea of how much time was spent playing. For current years you can find many transcriptions on youtube if you want to compare (hold down 3rd valve on a Bb if you want to try and play it).

http://therachels.net/therachels/appspring/

 

Thanks for that!  This is fun to read through.

[JimF-LowBari]

7 hours ago, frachel said:

For the horn players here, here's the early lead sop music from '87 to give you an idea of how much time was spent playing. For current years you can find many transcriptions on youtube if you want to compare (hold down 3rd valve on a Bb if you want to try and play it).

http://therachels.net/therachels/appspring/

 

And if anyone hits the other link that’s Bridgemen Alumni playing late 70s music. 

[HolyNOLA]

This is what playing and marching looks like

Take notice

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by HolyNOLA

[StuStu]

19 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

As for commenting on these two FANTASTIC shows, below are my thoughts.

• Both shows are incredible and two of the legendary shows in DCI history, even with BD's '17 production being relatively young.
• Both shows were/are the model for the activity at their time. BD's 17 show represents a style that many other corps are trying to copy in today's activity. A few corps have found their own unique version of this style, which I feel really began with BD in 2008. Corps like the Bluecoats, Crown, SCV, Cavaliers, and now Boston seem to have made nice transitions to a unique version of this style. The Bluecoats, to me, have further defined their own style with the way they have used props and electronics, not to mention uniforms, that i believe has even surpassed BD in that regard. This is most noticeable in 2014, 15, 16, and 17.  And a real jazz show as well in 2018.
• Both corps perform extremely well (back to BD and Cadets)
• Both shows were fan friendly. BD gets some criticism over the years for not being very fan friendly, but that has not been the case from 2014 and on. The 2017 show rocked the dome in Indy, just as Cadets rocked the house in Madison in 1987 (and so did SCV).

Specific Comments on the Two Shows:

Garfield Cadets 1987

• Cadets brass and field percussion are playing more. The music source material, as you noted, is from one composer and one piece.
• In this era of drum corps (and band) it was typical to write the music first and craft the visual to work with the music. Think of the music being like the movie in a theater, and the visual drill was more like the music soundtrack, but to the music. This was the typical way to develop a show back in the day. This is different today.
• Garfield's music is really arranged like a transcription of the orchestral ballet. Phrases are longer than what we typically hear today, and dramatic builds are more defined and given time to develop. 
• Brass line definitely needed endurance to play the book considering the time they had the horns to their faces.
• Battery percussion is playing and marching a lot.
• The responsibility of the pit is solid, but not overwhelming or nearly as diverse in instrumentation as we see today.
• The visual program is very demanding, especially for that time. But Zingali gives us more. It isn't just about demand and velocity. He gives us Art, beauty, perhaps one of the most aesthetically pleasing and polished visual books in DCI History. In addition to this being a terrific music book by Michael Klesch and who ever did percussion (I forget), the visual actually conveys the music as well as the music does. The drill moves when it needs to, pauses when it needs to, picks up velocity at the right moments,. and uses curves, angles, depth and width to paint the music to the field. They are not marching a routine for the sake of doing something hard. 
• It should be noted that we do not see many shows today that utilize the 2-step, and even 1-step intervals that you frequently see in this show. 
• The company front hit point and the following development of a dissolve (tension) and rebuild of the front (release) combine for one of the great impact moments in DCI History, certainly for the 80s and 90s. 
• When I saw this show I don't think I was worried about demand or velocity or how high some kid could play, etc. I walked out of the stadium realizing that I had seen a work of art like never before...and nothing else mattered. Their score and placement did not matter. SCV was just as good. But the artistic quality to Garfield in 1987 is sure to be remembered by any and all who ever saw the show live, and perhaps even on video. 

Comments on BD 2017 coming in a little...

One of the main goals in '87 was to be as faithful to the original work as possible.  

The initial "draft" of the show was actually closer to the orchestral work, which wasn't working as well because there weren't any drum-corps-esque impact points punctuating the end of each section.  Some creative liberties were taken in the rewrites with the hits at the end of parts 1 and 3.

One other thing that I think is exceptional about this show is the melodic percussion writing.  It was very cool over the winter to learn new parts in sectionals, then combine with the percussion for the first time, and hear how the battery fit with the horns.  Truly genius writing.

And the company front was another amazing thing to be part of.  Early on the front disappeared in one count, which was later changed to a push that was crumbling from the ends. My one claim to fame is I ended that move on the 50 - for 8 counts I was the center of the drum corps universe.  Marc Sylvester wasn't exactly thrilled.  In rehearsal he once said "Dress down to StuStu - and Gawd help us awl."

Here's a video of an early season run.  To my knowledge it is the only recording to have surfaced of the early-season show.

And that's another big difference between today and yesteryear - with all the smart phones and go pros, kids today have dozens of videos documenting each step of the way.

 

[StuStu]

And here's a slightly more smart ### version...

 

[StuStu]

11 hours ago, jordsterr said:

We definitely did in the 80's.  Not super sophisticated, but it got the job done.  We'd start the morning running and then doing crunches and pushups.  All things I wish I could do today....

We also kept track of our resting and active heartrate, as well as recovery time.  And remmeber being told "go run a lap as fast as you can then set up part four."

It wasn't the 4 to 5 jazz running with body movement you see today, but we were playing the whole time.

Edited July 12, 2019 by StuStu

[jwillis35]

11 hours ago, jordsterr said:

Lots to agree with here.  However, having been in that line, it is true that we had some folks who were just learning how to play.  There were some music majors back then, and I was one of the few.  There were also some non-majors who played VERY well.  But there were a number of folks who were young or woodwind transfers.  My seatmate was a great guy who was a high school tenor sax player who was learning how to play 3rd baritone.  It was good that we only had two valves back then!  To top it off, I was told at the time that we had the oldest horns in the top 12.  

Yes, I agree with all this. I wasn't trying to say that all non-music majors are better, just that there are excellent non majors who are super talented (even if tenor sax players) and who can contribute once they put in the work. We still see that today, but probably to a lesser degree. There is no doubt that the top 8 to 12 corps today have much more depth.

As for the instruments, I totally agree. I heard Garfield's brass was in bad shape. And in general G bugles back in the day were not made all that well. As someone else noted, when the 3-valve bugles came out in the early 90s it helped, but the brass they play today is far better.