It’s just standing around. It’s also running around.

[cfirwin3]

47 minutes ago, Rocketman said:

Perhaps one of these days we'll do a breakdown of how many scatter Vs actual drill moves are in a given corps show.

That's missing the point... as a 'scatter' drill move IS an actual drill move.  Those visual effects are plotted, rehearsed and executed consistently the same.

Again, the concern is with the aesthetic.

[queenanne_1536]

12 hours ago, Spatzzz said:

And people versed in modern day drum corps can lead the old nags to water but we can't make them drink... 🙂

I’m an old nag, but I have been a supporter of trombones, electronics, body movements, the costuming changes, three values and narration (as stupid and cheesy as it is 99.9% of the time), but what I’m having trouble supporting is the complete lack, in most corps, of actually marching while playing and actually marching a drill. It’s all just SO BORING. Most everyone has the same formula - stand - play ridiculously hard music that’s just hard for the sake of being hard - drum break while the brass runs in scatter drill and dances and does body movements - stand - play ridiculously hard music that’s just hard for the sake of being hard. Rise and repeat over and over and over. ]

Then we have the props. I’m not going to single any corps out - wait ok I’ll single them all out (expect BD) - what they are doing with their props is so laughable and basic. BD actually does cool and interesting things with their props. Everyone else - it’s just so corny. The Blue Stars sliding down slides. Really? Dumb. Vanguard having ladders just so people can climb them and not do anything interesting on them. Yeah, that’s exciting to watch. Bluecoats having a ridiculous amount of #### on the field to detract from the fact that they don’t have much drill either. Boston (who is actually one of the few who do have a drill) just hang on theirs. Really - it’s nothing interesting, so I’m perplexed as to why the activity has moved into this prop heavy direction. If you’re not BD, I can basically slam your props. They are all essentially pointless because they add absolutely nothing to the show. Bluecoats ‘16, Vanguard ‘18 and BD ‘19 were really the three times that props were really elevated to levels they should be.

I watch Flo every week, and I’m just bored with everyone except Crown and Boston. This activity has lost it’s way. I’m not drinking the KoolAid anymore.

 

[queenanne_1536]

9 hours ago, dcsnare93 said:

I marched in the 90's, and I wouldn't call what's being done today less difficult.

I get arguing otherwise makes some people feel good though.

Well it is absolutely easier to play standing still vs. marching. However, I’m not denying they aren’t doing difficult things. But, some of those difficult things are for the sake of being difficult. When you look at shows Star did in the early 90s and Cadets have done a million times, the demand wasn’t there for the sake of demand. It was there because the drill, the speed of the drill, and the formations of the drill fit the tempo of the music and the music itself. Star 1990 was definitely more difficult than Regiment 1990, but I loved both of those shows, for different reasons. Both, IMO, had visuals that fit the music - Star’s music (especially at the end) was just crazier.

Today, they may be doing difficult things, but this is a marching activity, and marching is not something they are doing. I’m just really bored by it all. There’s no musicality. There’s not much melody. The brass lines are playing less, and playing less on the move. The things I loved about this activity, namely music and drill are just falling by the wayside, so I just don’t know where to get my fix anymore.

[StuStu]

I had occasion to chat with a couple of judges a few weeks ago as I shuttled them to and from a show.

Both made the observation that many designers are doing things simply to show they can do them rather than making an artistic statement. The result is actually counterproductive, as the density of "effects" means nothing really stands out.  In this regard, less is more.

A great example of how to do it right comes from SCV's ballad in '18.  The hit towards the end of "My Body is a Cage" is the single most powerful and emotional moment I've experienced in 35 years of being in and around drum corps.  All they did was put their horns up.  But that simple move had a devastating impact, swinging the hammer before nailing you to the wall. 

 

[Fred Windish]

2 hours ago, StuStu said:

I had occasion to chat with a couple of judges a few weeks ago as I shuttled them to and from a show.

Both made the observation that many designers are doing things simply to show they can do them rather than making an artistic statement. The result is actually counterproductive, as the density of "effects" means nothing really stands out.  In this regard, less is more.

A great example of how to do it right comes from SCV's ballad in '18.  The hit towards the end of "My Body is a Cage" is the single most powerful and emotional moment I've experienced in 35 years of being in and around drum corps.  All they did was put their horns up.  But that simple move had a devastating impact, swinging the hammer before nailing you to the wall. 

 

This StuStu observation, and the contribution from gueenanne_1536 before, are reactions I’m hearing from many others as this season plays out. The “same-ness” of it all is becoming tedious. I much preferred last year’s productions. 

I’ll never give up interest in the activity, will continue to purchase products, etc., but fear the shows are leaving general audiences behind. All of “it” is done perfectly. The talent is more incredible than ever, etc., but the “it” is somehow lacking. Very difficult to express.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Fred Windish

[kdaddy]

We saw six examples of high speed drill from 2018. But we only saw one example from 1999, just to be clear. And it was a Cadets example at that - that was their thing in the late 90s. 

(I know for sure the top three had some high speed drill that year)

[cfirwin3]

8 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Well it is absolutely easier to play standing still vs. marching.

That generalization works only when we are talking about one piece of music.  But if the issue involves comparison, then it doesn't hold up.  Obviously it is easier to play a parade march on the move in a parade than it is to play a baroque solo concerto in a concert.

Additionally, when comparing groups in the late 80's and 90's, I don't think that we can assign a sort of virtue to them that suggests an indifference to programming something just because it has difficulty.  The score sheets had content and proficiency figures, which means that in the interest of competition, 'difficulty' was a significant consideration.  The implication is that they definitely made some choices just to address difficulty... they would have to in order to be relevant contenders.

Members and fans at that time were jockeying their superiority in discussions just like they do today.  The sticking point was always difficulty and proficiency.  I had friends and instructors in most of the big contenders (Star, Cadets, SCV, Crossmen).  They would sit around and rib each other on all the same stuff that we talk about today.  If I had a nickel for every time that someone pointed out that a group was standing still to play, I could have retired before I even started working.  I distinctly remember my cadet friends quiping that the '96 Blue Devils were "good when they weren't marching".  That's a laugh when you go look at the show and compare those complaints to the discussion today.

I maintain that nothing has changed but the aesthetics.

Which certainly means that some fans of yesterday may no longer be fans today.

Edited July 13, 2019 by cfirwin3

[DTrooper77]

I was able to make a top hornline in the early eighties.  At my best, I believe today, I would struggle to make a finalist hornline based on the technical difficulty of what they are playing.  There is no doubt, the members today are more talented and what they are doing (musically at least) is much more complex.  They are doing what they are asked to do extremely well.

I have an issue with the show designers, not the members.  The shows either have too much crap in the way that limits the drill, or the designers have gotten lazy and can't seem to connect one drill to the next.  

When I go back and enjoy past shows up to the early 2000's, I tend to watch the video.  I have found that when I enjoy shows over the last 5-8 years, I usually just listen to them. 

To me, the Cavaliers of the 2000's were the ultimate visual Corps when it comes to drill.  Brubaker and Gaines work is genius and executed stunningly well.  2002 and 2006 Cavies were the ultimate for me.  Drill flows throughout the show and every move holds my interest.

What I see now, is prop pushing,  running from the end of one set to the start of another, rolling around on the ground, or climbing up and down stairs to a stage. 

Today's shows are musical treats and I love to listen.  Yesterday's shows were visual feasts with wonderful musical score to go along with it.  I really miss that, and I don't understand how many of the Corps that march very little drill get such high visual scores.  High scores will only encourage more Corps to adopt that style, and there are some out there that still march a substantial amount of drill with no reward for doing it. 

Marching Music's Major League.... not so much anymore.

[LyricalCoder]

7 hours ago, DTrooper77 said:

I was able to make a top hornline in the early eighties.  At my best, I believe today, I would struggle to make a finalist hornline based on the technical difficulty of what they are playing.

You're not alone. I have two DCI rings from the 90's, yet I'm having trouble playing my son's 3rd trumpet book for his high school marching band. Talk about humility! 

[Ediker]

On 7/12/2019 at 3:56 AM, jjeffeory said:

Aww shucks. I'm playing Devils’ advocate with that one.

Fixed that for ya