Lance

drill vs. choreography in drum corps shows, 2 questions

2 questions  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is harder to teach?

    • choreography
      37
    • drill
      12
    • they are equally hard to teach
      21
  2. 2. Which is harder to perform?

    • choreography
      27
    • drill
      24
    • they are equally hard to perform
      19


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6 minutes ago, Incognito365 said:

I would love to get a dancers point of view on the body choreo that is done in corps these days being called dance and their thoughts on the members being able to move their bodies as dancers would. I think they might disagree across the board. 

You might be right. But when I look at the staff of the groups, there are several  well known dancers and choreographers on them. Like Broadway and Grammy/Tony award winning well known. SCV is one of them. I’d gather those groups probably do it about as well as any none life long trained dancer can do it. These kids now seem to have that training when they show up, it’s crazy. I know BD has separate  movment/dance auditions before kids are even given a spot. I never would have made it if I had to dance/choreo like that. 

Edited by trumpetcam

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And remember it all works together. The better you can dance and do movement, the better your posture is and the better  body control you have doing hard drill. Crown only looks that good in the drill becuase  they have great movement people teaching there as well. Some corps just choose to use dance and movment  as a more primary basis for their visual content as opposed to tradionally had drill That’s the crux of this whole discussion. It’s a choice and each are equally challenging. 

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"if you're not wearing nails, you're not doing drum corps"

whoops i meant "if you're not doing drill, you're not doing drag"

jesus what is wrong with me "if you're not playing g bugles, you're not wearing spandex"

no sorry what i meant to say was "if you're not keeping up with the times, the times are gonna leave your ### in the dust"

 

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Just now, furious-winter said:

"if you're not wearing nails, you're not doing drum corps"

whoops i meant "if you're not doing drill, you're not doing drag"

jesus what is wrong with me "if you're not playing g bugles, you're not wearing spandex"

no sorry what i meant to say was "if you're not keeping up with the times, the times are gonna leave your ### in the dust"

 

You okay bud?   I’m not doing drill right now so 😮

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10 hours ago, Lance said:

feel free to quibble 

I'm gonna quibble with your proposition!  

IMHO it should "marching drill" vs "flutter stepping/running".

Choreography (ie dance) has been part of  "marching drill" for quite some time. 

But to answer your original question:

Real choreography (taught by a proper choreographer) is harder to perform than marching. 

Technically it's harder to clean as well BUT it's often not judged to the same standards as marching (at least in the hornline).

Now to answer what SHOULD have been the original question:

Drill is far harder to perform well  than running about because the exposure to error FAR FAR greater.  

When a blob flutters from one prop to the next, it's nearly impossible to sample technique, timing, interval maintenance, etc...  In fact mostly you're limited to sampling just a few performers on technique and watching for awkward pathways.  And if the technique for the movement is "running" there's literally nothing to judge.  Remember there's no standard for technique -- only a requirement that the technique be uniform!

From an ensemble viewpoint, again most of the criteria judges are trained to use just isn't relevant.  So they're left with just a few items.  AGAIN -- exposure to ERROR is RADICALLY reduced.  While this may be smart programming,  I think it actually eliminates one of the key strengths of activity:  organized, precise motion with fantastic brass music.  

I can't type anymore.  Just thinking about this gives me a migraine.  

If judges were actually measuring the demand and level of simultaneous responsibilities,  this nonsensical blob-fluttering would be credited FAR LESS than demanding drill.  Instead we have corps trying (mostly badly) to be stage performers.  Regardless of the number of props,  it's a field not a stage.  There's no proper lighting, no proper way to change sets,  no "off-stage", no curtain, and no sound system that's even close to adequate (as compared to the broadway stage).  It's really kind of pathetic.  Blast worked because it was indoors and had all those things.  Drum corps will never have them.  

The End.

</soapbox>

Edited by karuna
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18 minutes ago, karuna said:

Regardless of the number of props,  it's a field not a stage. 

I know, for sure, that at least one of the best design teams look at the field AS the stage.  Because they talk that way.  And several of them come from "the stage".  And you can probably quess which one.  

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12 minutes ago, PamahoNow said:

I know, for sure, that at least one of the best design teams look at the field AS the stage.  Because they talk that way.  And several of them come from "the stage".  And you can probably quess which one.  

It's a football field.  No amount of calling it a stage will change that.

Edited by karuna
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When you come to the realization that drill IS choreography... and it is taught, performed and adjudicated AS choreography...

Life gets much more pleasant and freeing.

Edited by cfirwin3
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36 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

When you come to the realization that drill IS choreography... and it is adjudicated AS choreography...

Life gets much more pleasant and freeing.

No dispute.  I was comparing "flutter step/running from prop to prop" to "drill".  

Choreography -- proper choreography -- is dance.

Want to call drill dance?  Sure.  I've made that argument.

But then let's start comparing tightly choreographed motion by 80 performers while playing with virtuosity to unstructured, loosely coordinated flutter running without playing during the travel.

Then life gets very interesting.

It's effectively this vs this only the dancers are playing this!

Fluttering around is the biggest episode of "The Emperor's New Clothes" I've ever seen.  And the judges are the guys caught in the buff!   They've been sold a bill of goods and designers everywhere are laughing their arses off. 

Edited by karuna
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I thought that last year was the best drum corps season since 1991 despite the lack of drill in most corps.  This season I'm seeing less drill than I've seen since I went to my first drum corps show back in 1977.  That makes me very sad.  I'm not going to go very deep into a discussion about why I believe drill is harder than dance except to say that there is much more exposure to error with drill.  Both the GE judges and every person in the audience can see even the smallest problem in the drill.  A lack of perfection in some dance moves isn't nearly as easy to see from the stands. I could go on, but I don't think my arguments would change any minds.

In 2013 I almost gave up drum corps over the over use of electronics and amplification, but when I saw Troopers spectacular show I decided not to walk away.  Troopers 2013 program showed that it was possible to keep some traditional elements while at the same time embracing what is new. It's one of my all time favorite shows despite not making finals.

I find myself right back in the same mindset that I had in 2013 because of  what appears to be the last dying days of drill in drum and bugle corps. We seem to have already buried uniforms and hats.  With no Troopers 2013 on the horizon I once again feel like walking away .  I'll be in San Antonio on Saturday from the minute the stadium doors open.  I'm  hoping that seeing all the corps live will make me want to stay.  

Edited by bluesman
grammar

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