Lance

drill vs. choreography in drum corps shows, 2 questions

2 questions  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is harder to teach?

    • choreography
      37
    • drill
      12
    • they are equally hard to teach
      21
  2. 2. Which is harder to perform?

    • choreography
      27
    • drill
      24
    • they are equally hard to perform
      19


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9 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

I am going to pick drill as being more difficult because it can actually be judged vs just ones "taste"  Definable transitions vs scatter drill etc.  Lunging in a static form to cover dress and interval problems.  Some of the so called "body" makes me throw up in my mouth it's so badly done even by top 3 corps.  If you are going to dance, please do so and learn what that is about.

 

Requiring people to dance who can’t dance is painful to watch. 

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8 hours ago, trumpetcam said:

And remember it all works together. The better you can dance and do movement, the better your posture is and the better  body control you have doing hard drill. Crown only looks that good in the drill becuase  they have great movement people teaching there as well. Some corps just choose to use dance and movment  as a more primary basis for their visual content as opposed to tradionally had drill That’s the crux of this whole discussion. It’s a choice and each are equally challenging. 

Well, the elite corps are also selecting members by body type. Because they can.

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8 hours ago, trumpetcam said:

Some corps just choose to use dance and movment  as a more primary basis for their visual content as opposed to tradionally had drill That’s the crux of this whole discussion. It’s a choice and each are equally challenging. 

Ridiculous.  Even the best colorguards in DCI are not really very good dancers (although there are a handful of real dancers in each guard).  Actual skill in dance takes many, many years of intensive training -- something most of them have never put in.   There's an entirely different standard for "color guard dance" and "dance" and those judging the activity understand this.   OTOH those guard members are amazing at spinning their equipment while doing "colorguard dance" underneath.  

The same goes for having corps members dance only 1000 times that.  Don't delude yourself into thinking anyone's hornline is actually doing dance.  The only dance I've ever seen drum corps do well is marching.  They're pretty darn good at that.  Amazingly enough that form of dance allows the musicians to  -- wait for it  -- PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENT while moving.  It's pretty astounding.

Edited by karuna

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5 minutes ago, karuna said:

Actual skill in dance takes many, many  years of intensive training -

that's so not true - it only takes me about six beers 

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5 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

that's so not true - it only takes me about six beers 

I defer to your exceptional inebriation :biggrin:

Edited by karuna
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1 hour ago, karuna said:

No dispute.  I was comparing "flutter step/running from prop to prop" to "drill".  

Choreography -- proper choreography -- is dance.

Want to call drill dance?  Sure.  I've made that argument.

But then let's start comparing tightly choreographed motion by 80 performers while playing with virtuosity to unstructured, loosely coordinated flutter running without playing during the travel.

Then life gets very interesting.

It's effectively this vs this only the dancers are playing this!

Fluttering around is the biggest episode of "The Emperor's New Clothes" I've ever seen.  And the judges are the guys caught in the buff!   They've been sold a bill of goods and designers everywhere are laughing their arses off. 

Fine... Be that way!

I think of it this way.

Corps staff only need to teach 5% to 95% when it comes to drill.  But they need to teach 100% to 95% when it comes to the dance choreography.

All of this meaning that 95% of the members were already taught 95% of the marching technique by someone else before they arrived.  They are being taught nuance and drill sets by the staff.  About 5% (yes there are some) are learning everything about marching by corps staff for the first time.

About 5% know something about dance related disciplines... and the rest are totally new to it.

That being said, the staff doesn't need to teach much in the way of dance... only what they need to know for a few minutes of a 12 minute show.

But to my initial point.  Marching is choreography, from the movement in drill sets to the uniform technique of marching.  It's all about learning uniform movement of the body, from large sweeping motion to small.

Edited by cfirwin3

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14 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

Fine... Be that way!

I think of it this way.

Corps staff only need to teach 5% to 95% when it comes to drill.  But they need to teach 100% to 95% when it comes to the dance choreography.

not interested in how hard or easy things are for the instructors.  that's a red herring. (and the only reason drill is far easier to teach is because they've been teaching it for thousands of years  (come on,  we have living dinosaurs) so tools have been created to optimize the transfer of information from instructor to performer.  that efficiency has come through a lot of hard work)

again.  if a drum corps wants to be a real dance ensemble, have at it.  but that's not close to what they're doing.  mostly they're just running from prop to prop, maybe a little climbing, and then pose and play.  hardly what anyone would call choreography.  yes there's choreography when they're not playing but that has always been the case in the past 20-30 years.

 

Edited by karuna
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10 minutes ago, karuna said:

not interested in how hard or easy things are for the instructors.  that's a red herring. (and the only reason drill is far easier to teach is because they've been teaching it for thousands of years  (come on,  we have living dinosaurs) so tools have been created to optimize the transfer of information from instructor to performer.  that efficiency has come through a lot of hard work)

again.  if a drum corps wants to be a real dance ensemble, have at it.  but that's not close to what they're doing.  mostly they're just running from prop to prop, maybe a little climbing, and then pose and play.  hardly what anyone would call choreography.  yes there's choreography when they're not playing but that has always been the case in the past 20-30 years.

 

Any teacher knows that what is easy for the instructor is therefore easy for the learner (likely making the instructor's job easy in the first place).  I don't see what your point is in that respect.

I think people are reducing what choreography is to a very specific sub set of skills... but that word is very broad.

If I go to a Broadway show or the opera house for a modern ballet... when someone is running from here to there or climbing a ladder (which they do), I am watching choreography.  It's pretty straightforward.

Edited by cfirwin3
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30 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

I think you are reducing what choreography is to a very specific sub set of skills.

If I go to a Broadway show or the opera house for a modern ballet... when someone is running from here to there or climbing a ladder (which they do), I am watching choreography.  It's pretty straightforward.

lol you're going to go there.  nothing -- i repeat -- nothing a drum corps does is remotely similar to a broadway show or modern ballet.  sounds like you've been sold the same bill of goods.  even the lowliest chorus member or junior ballet dancer makes anything anyone does in a drum corps look like kindergarteners romping around their classroom.

but for arguments sake let's go to the broadway musical.  during a broadway production the performers are playing their instrument  (their voice) while traveling from point A to point B.    i'm not seeing that in fluttering travels.  why?  because you can't flutter and keep the mouthpiece still.  BUT if you choose a form of motion more appropriate to the venue (ie MARCHING) you actually CAN play and move.  Not only that,  the movement (instead of being functional and moving from A to B) takes on an entirely new dimension:  it manipulates space and shape.  Furthermore the movement keeps the instrument pointed to the audience (whereas fluttering is always traveling with the body oriented in the direction of travel).  Finally the simultaneous demands of movement and playing place very high burdens on the performers (again unlike the functional flutter).

So drill is actually MORE like a broadway show than fluttering around

dude you do NOT want to keep going.  this was (and is ) all about reducing exposure to error.   it's why it was introduced.  and it's why it's spreading.  and it's a sin against god, country, the pope and zingali.   

(functional -- one the most frightening words you could ever hear from a judge in critique.  now every single flutter is functional;  it's sole purpose is move performers from A to B.  is anyone hearing that F word in critique?  somehow i doubt it.  they are all buck naked sitting there admiring their new clothes)

Edited by karuna

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