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Sound Reinforcement - who balances it best?


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15 minutes ago, KVG_DC said:

Besides, if you're going to go hyperbole, go the full route.  Corps can go to 154 members now.  So it'll be 153 flags not 149.  🙄

So, the ADM's are also going to carry flags?  Cool!

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Just now, Ghost said:

 So, the ADM's are also going to carry flags?  Cool!

Actually, after the one member presses the play button they can just go all in with 154 flags.  

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Just as a point of comparison, though not exactly equivalent to a competitive drum corps show, here's the finale from the Basel Tattoo. I was given a back-stage tech tour two weeks ago (courtesy of Erik Julliard, director of the event, WDCHOF member, and leader of Top Secret).

There are well over 1000 simultaneous performers at various points, including brass bands, pipers, vocal and instrumental soloists, 100 voice choir, symphony orchestra, rock band, narrations...you get the picture.

The balance was virtually perfect throughout. As an example, note the piccolo soloist feature at about 10:55 in the video. At one point, all the above were contributing, yet her sound was still distinct.

Of course, it took about a week of rehearsals to tweak the production. The venue was outdoors, attended by about 10, 000.

There were 3 medium sized PA speakers across the front (narrow end) and 4 along each of the sides. At no point did they obscure any acoustic sounds. The sound tech was backstage, handling about 100 clip-on mics at a time. The sound director was in the stands, adjusting balance via clear-com commands.

You can judge the results for yourself.

Drum corps can't achieve all this, given their practical limitations, but the point is that there are standards for what constitutes good sound mixing in a stadium and some attention might be paid to them.

 

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Thanks ironlips... might put this over the tv to test everything before watching DCA Peckville over the Internet tonight

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Basel Tattoo Finale is a fun watch.  So many different sound styles getting worked together.  

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17 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

The day is coming where we will see a 25 member line (the 25 members including percussion) all amped & in the pit, with 120 guard on the field.   Or perhaps, because recorded music is allowed, one member in the pit to press 'play', and 149 guard on the field.

This would not be allowed because pressing play and running a pre-recorded, multi-tracked sequenced audio recording of the corps playing their parts is not allowed. You can use audio effects to stylize your live playing (such as solos). A number of corps do this by using a mic on a soloist and then using an effect to allow the "live" solo to have a delay or some other kind of effect. But it is generated live. Pre-recorded audio of voice or narration is allowed, as is live voice and narration. Most sound effects you hear are being generated by the use of synthesizer and other instruments in the pit, although I believe the corps can use some audio for effects (as we heard with Bluecoats Tilt show when the horn line plays a chord and then a synth using a saw-tooth waveform is bent down, then horns, then the wave is bent upward). I was never sure if they used a live synth player for that (easy enough to do) or if that was pre-recorded, but it was clever use of an effect. 

I think right now DCI has found a good thing. Trimming down to 25 brass (for the WC corps) or less seems like a program killer to me. 

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4 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

This would not be allowed because pressing play and running a pre-recorded, multi-tracked sequenced audio recording of the corps playing their parts is not allowed. You can use audio effects to stylize your live playing (such as solos). A number of corps do this by using a mic on a soloist and then using an effect to allow the "live" solo to have a delay or some other kind of effect. But it is generated live. Pre-recorded audio of voice or narration is allowed, as is live voice and narration. Most sound effects you hear are being generated by the use of synthesizer and other instruments in the pit, although I believe the corps can use some audio for effects (as we heard with Bluecoats Tilt show when the horn line plays a chord and then a synth using a saw-tooth waveform is bent down, then horns, then the wave is bent upward). I was never sure if they used a live synth player for that (easy enough to do) or if that was pre-recorded, but it was clever use of an effect. 

I think right now DCI has found a good thing. Trimming down to 25 brass (for the WC corps) or less seems like a program killer to me. 

Thanks for the rule clarification.  I also don't think a small music section / giant guard is a good idea.  But I do wonder when someone will try it out.

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3 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

 Thanks for the rule clarification.  I also don't think a small music section / giant guard is a good idea.  But I do wonder when someone will try it out.

You could argue Phantom Regiment started to go there with that Phantasm show when they went with a larger guard at the expense of brass numbers.  They quickly moved away from it though.  

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4 minutes ago, KVG_DC said:

You could argue Phantom Regiment started to go there with that Phantasm show when they went with a larger guard at the expense of brass numbers.  They quickly moved away from it though.  

Thank goodness Cartwright is no longer designing shows for DCI.

Oddly enough, that show marked the first time people really noticed the whole "full hornline amplification" thing, although I've known it was a thing in years past thanks to BD and maybe 1 or 2 others.

Edited by Cadevilina Crown
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/27/2019 at 11:40 AM, ironlips said:

Just as a point of comparison, though not exactly equivalent to a competitive drum corps show, here's the finale from the Basel Tattoo. I was given a back-stage tech tour two weeks ago (courtesy of Erik Julliard, director of the event, WDCHOF member, and leader of Top Secret).

There are well over 1000 simultaneous performers at various points, including brass bands, pipers, vocal and instrumental soloists, 100 voice choir, symphony orchestra, rock band, narrations...you get the picture.

The balance was virtually perfect throughout. As an example, note the piccolo soloist feature at about 10:55 in the video. At one point, all the above were contributing, yet her sound was still distinct.

Of course, it took about a week of rehearsals to tweak the production. The venue was outdoors, attended by about 10, 000.

There were 3 medium sized PA speakers across the front (narrow end) and 4 along each of the sides. At no point did they obscure any acoustic sounds. The sound tech was backstage, handling about 100 clip-on mics at a time. The sound director was in the stands, adjusting balance via clear-com commands.

You can judge the results for yourself.

Drum corps can't achieve all this, given their practical limitations, but the point is that there are standards for what constitutes good sound mixing in a stadium and some attention might be paid to them.

 

I think this is the goal for the Sound designers for DCI eventually, I would argue that some like Bluecoats are approaching these levels of detail.

To my ears Bluecoats amplification is a bit noticeable, especially when noticing the volume of the Hornline in relation to the how close they are to the audience... Many times the Hornline is far away from the Sideline but still have the volume and clarity as if they were planted on the Front Sideline. The Second Movement in particular the field feels "Live" Meaning that you can feel the mics turned up in relation to the first movement. This would to me feel like an area of improvement, because I am no sound engineer I am an enthusiast who likes Drum Corps and after listening to Bluecoats during their FLO (streaming performances)  had my doubts that where confirmed after listening live.. I watched them At New Era Field in Buffalo on the 50 yd line about 25 rows up.

Now it is noticeable in the sense that my mind was not computing how the hornline could sound so good and clear when there where so far away.. From a clarity standpoint, it was spot on.

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