What would you think if...

[Precious Roy]

Some corps have a fundraising apparatus advantage.

Some corps have a sponsorship advantage,

Some corps have an alumni support advantage.

Some corps have a weather during spring training advantage.

Some corps have a recruiting advantage.

Some corps have a top level staff advantage.

You make due (within the rules) with the advantages you have to try to make yourself better. And find ways to mitigate (or turn around) your disadvantages.

[oldbandguy]

FWIW... in my opinion the Visual Medium with Bloo '19 is the best I've ever seen...even better than '16

[cfirwin3]

24 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

They are allowed within the rules. But unless I've missed something DCI did not give the each Corps the funding to get 100,000 Worth of Sound equipment on the field.. Most corps when electronics began got the McCormicks set https://www.mccormicksnet.com/Field-PA-Systems-s/160.htm and called it a day...

Now a days if you show up to a World class event with this set up you are being laughed out the building.....

To get to the Level that Bluecoats is at every single corps is going to have to invest a significant portion of the budget for the upcoming season to invest in hardware and most importantly someone that knows what to do with that equipment... The person who knows what they are doing is the biggest advantage that I see, Even the most skilled Sound Engineers in the world will have a learning curve learning what Aaron Beck has learned the past 4 seasons making mistakes and having stored presets for almost every single performance venue imagineable.. 

I'm hunting with a Knife, while you have Geolocation, Infrared Sight and long range scoped rifle... We are both Technically still hunting but you have alot of tools to help you achieve your goal. Who is the better hunter between the two of us? That is the choice that the music Judges have right now..

But it's important to note that the use of electronics doesn't change the consequences of the funding gap.  Groups have always spent their money on assets that benefit their design... if not electronics, then something else (uniforms, staging, props, gear, horns, drums, tarps, busses, trucks, vans, etc.).  Electronics don't augment the issue... money is money and stuff is stuff.

[Jurassic Lancer]

2 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

All that being said... I assure you... a drumcorps like the Bluecoats is about as loud and balanced as they come.  When they are using amplification, it is for reasons other than making some sort of point that they can (and do) easily make without it.  It's about taking an unnatural environment and facing... and making it sound natural to the audience (the identical motivation to the same use in the symphony orchestra in similar venues).

And I agree ... but in any case, I would appreciate it if every corps would be up front about this. The cloak of secrecy makes it seem a bit sinister.

[cfirwin3]

2 minutes ago, Incognito365 said:

You do have it twisted, because micing a soloist so they are staged in the drill rather than the sideline and micing an entire ensemble because they can't cut it is two totally different things, but 2 posts in and I already can tell that this is going to go nowhere so I'm out. Enjoy.

your premise is what is twisted...

"because they can't cut it"

You are importing this cause while I am dealing with it directly by talking about the simplest application to see it (soloists).

If you amplify a group that "can't cut it"... you get a louder group that "can't cut it".  I'm not sure why you are missing that point.  As far as abilities go... 'volume' or projection, in and of itself is extremely low on the list of requisites (it's actually not on the list... in practice).

[Eleran]

4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

 When they are using amplification, it is for reasons other than making some sort of point that they can (and do) easily make without it.  It's about taking an unnatural environment and facing... and making it sound natural to the audience (the identical motivation to the same use in the symphony orchestra in similar venues).

But that's just it ... I don't go to a live drum corps show in a stadium atmosphere to listen to musicians play virtuoso scales at mp as if they're in a practice room., just blasted loud through a speaker.  This activity has always been an outdoor activity and represented a balance of musicality with projection.  That's what I go there for.  If I want to hear the most musicality a group of instrumentalists can provide, I'll take a pass on a bunch of 20 year olds and go straight to the concert hall or buy a recording.   

That's my biggest issue.  I want to hear what these young musicians can do - by themselves - in an outdoor environment, with all its difficulties.  THAT is Drum & Bugle Corps ... at least for me.  YMMV.

[cfirwin3]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

And I agree ... but in any case, I would appreciate it if every corps would be up front about this. The cloak of secrecy makes it seem a bit sinister.

Are they being secretive?  I don't think they are concerned with it, because on the 'inside', it isn't an issue.  Tell the brass instructors in Crown or SCV that fans are concerned about how they are using amplification to sound better than they are...

and they will laugh...  hard... then pause to look you in the face.  And then laugh again.  They would do that because their compartmentalized job has nothing to do with electronic amplification.  They teach articulation, breath control and facility.

[Incognito365]

3 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

your premise is what is twisted...

"because they can't cut it"

You are importing this cause while I am dealing with it directly by talking about the simplest application to see it (soloists).

If you amplify a group that "can't cut it"... you get a louder group that "can't cut it".  I'm not sure why you are missing that point.  As far as abilities go... 'volume' or projection, in and of itself is extremely low on the list of requisites (it's actually not on the list... in practice).

And volume and projection are considered what? Dynamics.

If a corps doesn't have dynamics as well as the rest of the corps, it's factored into what? Music and GE.

If a corps doesn't have good music and GE scores, what happens? They don't score well.

Which means what? They can't cut it. 

There are corps who aren't micing the entire corps beating others who are. Why? Because it's more impressive, sounds better, and isn't creating something artificially.

[cfirwin3]

1 minute ago, Eleran said:

But that's just it ... I don't go to a live drum corps show in a stadium atmosphere to listen to musicians play virtuoso scales at mp as if they're in a practice room., just blasted loud through a speaker.  This activity has always been an outdoor activity and represented a balance of musicality with projection.  That's what I go there for.  If I want to hear the most musicality a group of instrumentalists can provide, I'll take a pass on a bunch of 20 year olds and go straight to the concert hall or buy a recording.   

That's my biggest issue.  I want to hear what these young musicians can do - by themselves - in an outdoor environment, with all its difficulties.  THAT is Drum & Bugle Corps ... at least for me.  YMMV.

But now we have gotten somewhere.

Just like so many other issues of difference... this issue is really about aesthetic preference.

And that is fine... but it's important to note that this is not about ability.  Those kids that are playing beautifully under mic, can certainly meet you where you are at (I promise).  But why in the world should they, when they have a chance to play music rather than an idiomatic expectation?

Aren't you actually getting most of what you want anyway... most of the time? If you are being honest about what you hear in the live setting?  Only you can answer that for yourself.

[cfirwin3]

3 minutes ago, Incognito365 said:

And volume and projection are considered what? Dynamics.

If a corps doesn't have dynamics as well as the rest of the corps, it's factored into what? Music and GE.

If a corps doesn't have good music and GE scores, what happens? They don't score well.

Which means what? They can't cut it. 

There are corps who aren't micing the entire corps beating others who are. Why? Because it's more impressive, sounds better, and isn't creating something artificially.

Do you know some drumcorps that can only play at p-f that I don't know about?

I don't know of any corps like that, that are amplifying the entire corps all the time for the reasons that you are suggesting.  If you do, then name them.