What would you think if...

[CrownBariDad]

3 hours ago, Fred Windish said:

garfield,

I previously asked actual  in-person audience members to state if their "outside the twenties" listening experience is being made better. So far, no has replied. Maybe that's because those who post here are those who occupy the center seats. Ha!

The sound engineers express (in words and video) improving the experience for more of the audience is a major goal. I do believe that, and maybe, most are failing to achieve this. Then, the matter of each member playing the instruments properly (like the pit stuff) also makes sense, I think.

A big impediment to my understanding is how I, at this point in life, consume the product. That would be almost entirely through Flo. Even when younger and more active, I mostly stood field level and center. Crowds are not my "thing" any more, nor is enjoying all this from any single vantage point (stadium seat).

I certainly agree with you, the introduction of electronics has been, and remains 'rocky,' to say the least !

Wonderful discussion. Thanks!

 

I think it was ATL last year we waited too long to get good seats, so we were on around the 15 or so. The seats were angled so we got a decent view, but we were definitely outside some Corps' speakers.

General impressions: too often I could hear the pit (from the speaker) above the brass when the brass was on the 50 aiming for the press box. There were a few brass features on our side (side 2) which were wonderful. 

Can't recall much else. Sorry.

[cixelsyd]

2 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:

My opinions aren't really opinions, more objective observations based on my extensive and continued work with live sound reinforcement, music technology, electroacoustic composition and acoustics/psychoacoustics/sound propagation (and several advanced degrees in these fields). 

Oh, that explains it.  Your opinions are science.  Ours are just opinions.

[MarimbaManiac]

Just now, cixelsyd said:

Oh, that explains it.  Your opinions are science.  Ours are just opinions.

Facts are facts America. 

[Fred Windish]

7 minutes ago, CrownBariDad said:

I think it was ATL last year we waited too long to get good seats, so we were on around the 15 or so. The seats were angled so we got a decent view, but we were definitely outside some Corps' speakers.

General impressions: too often I could hear the pit (from the speaker) above the brass when the brass was on the 50 aiming for the press box. There were a few brass features on our side (side 2) which were wonderful. 

Can't recall much else. Sorry.

Hey, thanks !  This weekend should be a good one to gauge what everything sounds like from the outer sections. Possibly, just turning the front speakers 10 degrees toward each end zone would be enough.

Will one of our sound technicians (we know you’re reading) describe the viability of such a simple adjustment ?

[Cappybara]

17 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Because it is addressed in every single other form of live performance, with very limited exception. 

Because the listening public is now conditioned to hear music in a specific way, whether or not they are able to articulate what that is or how it's created. 

Because it helps (in addition to the work of the music techs and member excellence, not in place of it) contribute to clarity of intent. 

Because it helps provide a more compelling and dazzling experience for the audience. 

Because they feel like it, and it's allowed by the rules. 

Are you saying that every single one of these statements are facts? Because you seem to be convinced that everything coming out of your keyboard is "science"

The idea that amplification and such is necessary in drum corps because that is what the audience is "conditioned to" is asinine. If this was the case, artists wouldn't release acoustic versions of their singles. 

I don't know about you but when I am sitting in the stadium and all of a sudden hear the battery blasting through the speakers over the brass, I don't consider that "clarity of intent"

"Because it provides a more compelling and dazzling experience for the audience" LOL, yeah, Crown's mic cutting out at 2017 finals was certainly an experience. 

The only factual statement in your entire post was that last phrase, "it's allowed by the rules"

[cixelsyd]

2 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

Agree. People just don't seem to understand this. They don't have the experience of working with mics, amps, electronic instruments, etc. A bad horn line is still going to sound bad. Bad blend is still bad blend.

I understand that amplification, by itself, does not prevent a badly performed sound from still sounding bad.  But none of the people repeating that mantra want to comment on how that game changes when mixing in pre-recorded samples and synthesized sounds.

[JimF-LowBari]

3 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Hey, thanks !  This weekend should be a good one to gauge what everything sounds like from the outer sections. Possibly, just turning the front speakers 10 degrees toward each end zone would be enough.

Will one of our sound technicians (we know you’re reading) describe the viability of such a simple adjustment ?

Guessing angle of the speakers (vertical/horizontal) is set so the sound meets right at the judges area. Saw the Gettysburg exhibition show years back from about 10 yard line. We did first corps gig and that’s what was left. Really interesting but glad I didn’t have to pay with what was missed. 

You know it’s bad when you can see the BACK of a speaker

[cixelsyd]

2 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

Then you are aligned with essentially nobody (by my quick estimation) in this thread with respect to your cause for disliking amplification.

Either I am a nobody, or you estimated too quickly.  🙂

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, garfield said:

I'm sorry, this makes no sense.

Are "balance" and mixing "multiple tracks" and "tuning to the room" part of the judging rubric?  (Yes, of course.)

Is it possible that a corps using these tools are better at those three things as a result and, also a result, they score higher because of their use?  (Yes, of course.)

I've got no such misunderstanding of A&E's potential so please don't include me in "everyone".

What the members "Do" is play less, play with "enhanced" sound support, and push props.  They all do that to the extent they can afford it and, per the current judging sheets, those who can afford better tools are better rewarded for their balance, mixing, and tuning.  All others just need to step to the back of the room and let "the draw" through.

That's no competition.

 

and if kids didnt like it, they wouldn't try out

[N.E. Brigand]

On 8/5/2019 at 9:54 PM, karuna said:

Hypothetically what if that brass line was suddenly scoring really well by choosing the strongest players to mic and then controlling the mix?  

Isn't this the sort of thing that designers promised they wouldn't do in order to keep the limit-on-brass-amplification rule from passing in January 2018?