What would you think if...

[Eleran]

Just now, cfirwin3 said:

And last time I checked, football fields were made for football.

I'll give you that much.

But that's about as far as I can agree with you.

[cfirwin3]

1 minute ago, Incognito365 said:

Then they shouldn't have let that "poor" player into the corps. Sorry. It's not the same no matter how you twist it. 

The assertion is that it makes corps sound better when they otherwise couldn't hack it competitively.  That's what this is about.  I have twisted nothing.

What does amplification do for an ensemble that doesn't play as well as another?

[oldbandguy]

1 minute ago, cfirwin3 said:

  And last time I checked, football fields were made for football.

Not always in Cleveland and Cincinnati...

[cfirwin3]

1 minute ago, Eleran said:

I'll give you that much.

But that's about as far as I can agree with you.

It's good to agree... even on the small things.

Did you march (not necessarily drumcorps if you didn't) but in any field band group?  Could be HS, anything that fits the model.  And it doesn't matter the instrument, although it's easier to discuss if you are a wind player rather than percussion.

[Eleran]

6 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

It's good to agree... even on the small things.

Did you march (not necessarily drumcorps if you didn't) but in any field band group?  Could be HS, anything that fits the model.  And it doesn't matter the instrument, although it's easier to discuss if you are a wind player rather than percussion.

2 years mello; 2 years DM.  Didn't have/make the opportunity for DCI

[Glenn426]

10 minutes ago, Precious Roy said:

How DARE they!

They are allowed within the rules. But unless I've missed something DCI did not give the each Corps the funding to get 100,000 Worth of Sound equipment on the field.. Most corps when electronics began got the McCormicks set https://www.mccormicksnet.com/Field-PA-Systems-s/160.htm and called it a day...

Now a days if you show up to a World class event with this set up you are being laughed out the building.....

To get to the Level that Bluecoats is at every single corps is going to have to invest a significant portion of the budget for the upcoming season to invest in hardware and most importantly someone that knows what to do with that equipment... The person who knows what they are doing is the biggest advantage that I see, Even the most skilled Sound Engineers in the world will have a learning curve learning what Aaron Beck has learned the past 4 seasons making mistakes and having stored presets for almost every single performance venue imagineable.. 

I'm hunting with a Knife, while you have Geolocation, Infrared Sight and long range scoped rifle... We are both Technically still hunting but you have alot of tools to help you achieve your goal. Who is the better hunter between the two of us? That is the choice that the music Judges have right now..

[Jurassic Lancer]

4 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

They are allowed within the rules. But unless I've missed something DCI did not give the each Corps the funding to get 100,000 Worth of Sound equipment on the field.. Most corps when electronics began got the McCormicks set https://www.mccormicksnet.com/Field-PA-Systems-s/160.htm and called it a day...

Now a days if you show up to a World class event with this set up you are being laughed out the building.....

To get to the Level that Bluecoats is at every single corps is going to have to invest a significant portion of the budget for the upcoming season to invest in hardware and most importantly someone that knows what to do with that equipment... The person who knows what they are doing is the biggest advantage that I see, Even the most skilled Sound Engineers in the world will have a learning curve learning what Aaron Beck has learned the past 4 seasons making mistakes and having stored presets for almost every single performance venue imagineable.. 

I'm hunting with a Knife, while you have Geolocation, Infrared Sight and long range scoped rifle... We are both Technically still hunting but you have alot of tools to help you achieve your goal. Who is the better hunter between the two of us? That is the choice that the music Judges have right now..

Odd as it may seem ... I agree with this.

[Glenn426]

Just now, Jurassic Lancer said:

Odd as it may seem ... I agree with this.

And as I said Kudos to Bluecoats for having the vision in 2016 that this was the next frontier for DCI and doing everything they could to get a hold of this area and understand it, But they currently hold a significant advantage over the other corps.. Outside of SCV and Crown which are coincidentally 1, 2 & 3 in the music captions as of late, the other corps do not have an equal understanding/investment of said electronics..

I remember posting in the predictions thread that if Bluecoats were going to win this year they would have to find a new way to innovate.... Outside of the Visual Medium because their props this year where not up to par with the GE advantage that the ramps in Down Side Up gave them...

Low and behold they have innovated and are clearly out in front of everyone enjoying this technological advantage while playing some amazing music (which is the genius stroke)

[cfirwin3]

Just now, Eleran said:

2 years mello; 2 years DM.  Didn't have/make the opportunity for DCI

That's fine.  DCI doesn't matter... it's all the same thing as it relates to this.  Doing the DM stuff gives a good perspective on this as well (from the front and center perspective)

Think about your shows (again it doesn't matter if this was competitive or not, it's all the same).  When there was a soloist (bear with me, this is not merely about soloists) where on the field were they typically positioned in the show at the moment that they played?

This may not be a perfect example as many sins are committed in staging acoustic soloists.  But my guess (as would be with the vast majority of fully acoustic era drumcorps) is that they were positioned on the front sideline (unless it was a backfield effect, or something acoustically special).  The reason for this is because the position adds a major benefit to being heard on most passages.  The exception is usually when the passage is a loud one... some screaming soprano solo from the middle of the ranks.  Even when you look at Blue Devils through the late 80's and early 90's the soloists are parked on or near the sideline.  This is done to give them the benefit of space (as much as 40 yards) and to allow them to play as properly as possible in the venue and be heard.  This staging can only accomplish so much, and if you heard drumcorps at the time, you will note that solos were very edgy.  Even the lyrical ones were very strident.  G instruments don't just sound like that, they were being played like that.  The same went for the Bb era when it changed in the early 2000s.

Now... that is all gone.  It's gone.  There is no more of that type of restriction on great players.  They are able to show what they can do without working against themselves.  And the solos sound like they would in a concert or recital hall.

Now I know that this is all about ensembles... but again, the same rules apply.  For whatever application, microphones and amps are not capable of highlighting something of a lesser quality and making it out to be a better quality.  It is hard to play some things cleanly and loudly, not because it takes a great player to do so... but because the instrument isn't meant to be played that way and get the result that is demanded.  And on this principle, I can't really care about the use of amplification.  It takes MAJOR guts to amplify something... It's not the other way around.

All that being said... I assure you... a drumcorps like the Bluecoats is about as loud and balanced as they come.  When they are using amplification, it is for reasons other than making some sort of point that they can (and do) easily make without it.  It's about taking an unnatural environment and facing... and making it sound natural to the audience (the identical motivation to the same use in the symphony orchestra in similar venues).

[Incognito365]

39 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

The assertion is that it makes corps sound better when they otherwise couldn't hack it competitively.  That's what this is about.  I have twisted nothing.

What does amplification do for an ensemble that doesn't play as well as another?

You do have it twisted, because micing a soloist so they are staged in the drill rather than the sideline and micing an entire ensemble because they can't cut it is two totally different things, but 2 posts in and I already can tell that this is going to go nowhere so I'm out. Enjoy.