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23 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Because sound designers usually get hours or days in a space to tune it correctly. In DCI that doesn't happen.

Sounds to me like DCI is not the proper activity to implement A&E then. 

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Only on DCP can you get references to The Crucible AND Caddyshack on the same thread.  I’m dead. 😂 

What would I think? The more I hear about this stuff, it impacts how impressed I am with what I'm hearing.  If what I'm hearing is mostly a talented soundboard guy and expensive equipment, then t

But that's just it ... I don't go to a live drum corps show in a stadium atmosphere to listen to musicians play virtuoso scales at mp as if they're in a practice room., just blasted loud through a spe

As a refresher, the question of the post wasn’t whether or not amplification was a good or bad thing.  I don’t believe anyone is wrong for liking what they like.  The intention was more to get folks to consider obvious differences in audio engineering abilities and budget in a competitive setting.  At points, I also tried to get people to consider what diverting limited resources might mean for groups and their members.  

There are more resources demanded than just that of money.  All that sound equipment, on average, is unloaded , assembled, moved, disassembled, and loaded TWICE a day.  It’s not roadies that are doing this, it’s members.  The same is true of props.  They are needed to rehearse and perform.  We have kids burning upwards of 3-4 hours each day loading and building props.  

It is obtuse to imply that sound and props don’t impact perception and even placement.  It is callous to say, “well, go make more money”.  Fans are seeing and hearing an unbelievable level of entertainment.  But, consider the cost and what it might be taking away from the member experience and strain it places on each organization.  

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Which reminds me.... any ideas on how the equipment stands up to the beating of loading/unloading, being in the weather, etc?

rode and did loading duties on the drum truck for 5 years as way to get to practice and know how hard it was on the stuff back then

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So, is this like an Alabama vs Auburn thing? Do I HAVE to pick one side or the other? Yes A&E or no A&E?

Because (and I mentioned this in another thread) if there happened to be a "throwback" or "classic" division in some drum corps circuit somewhere (be it DCI, DCA, or something completely new), where there was no A&E, and the only "props" allowed were flags, rifles, and sabers, and the quality was good enough for me, I would totally support it by attending shows or buying media or streaming access or whatever. But whether or not that happens, I will continue to also enjoy and support the current version of DCI -- A&E and megaprop warts and all.

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2 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Which reminds me.... any ideas on how the equipment stands up to the beating of loading/unloading, being in the weather, etc?

rode and did loading duties on the drum truck for 5 years as way to get to practice and know how hard it was on the stuff back then

Groups use tents for electronics in rehearsal and always have tarps at the ready as well for weather.  Loading/unloading will beat anything up over time.  More costs of playing this game of ours.

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25 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

I would counter that amplifying the brass isn't about volume (with exception of the soloists), but instead it's about quality of sound. 

Does that mean the quality of large brass ensembles, which was surely a key element that people loved about drum corps for decades, was in fact bad?

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6 minutes ago, One n Done said:

The intention....

...consider obvious differences in audio engineering abilities and budget in a competitive setting.

...consider what diverting limited resources might mean for groups and their members.

If this was your intention, why not open the thread with these points and your POV?

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1 minute ago, mrk said:

If this was your intention, why not open the thread with these points and your POV?

I had information that I trusted (and still do).  Though I, like others, have had suspicions-I got confirmation from participants whom I do not doubt.  It was a little shocking.  Especially having recently heard that group.  A group without field mics and one that was remarkably louder than it’s close competitors.  I shared the information I was comfortable with.  Naming such a group is not something I’d do, as there are kids on the field to consider.  It’s the actions of the adults that I question and one that I wanted explored in the community.  I felt the best way to generate discussion was in the manner I did.  I’ve largely stayed out of the back and forth, but appreciate the views shared by all.  I’ve no expectations beyond that some of us may be a little more knowledgeable at this point and perhaps a bit more discerning in how we consume the activity.

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1 hour ago, MarimbaManiac said:

I would counter that amplifying the brass isn't about volume (with exception of the soloists), but instead it's about quality of sound. 

And therein lies the failure of your argument.

If the "quality of sound" is judged in the sheets, those who can, do, and get credit and those who can't suffer coming in below in the placements.

Winning by checkbook anyone?

 

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2 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Nearly ten years ago, when I and others here were arguing that pit amplification was no more necessary than the mostly hypothetical notion of brass amplification (and the totally hypothetical notion that large brass ensembles would be miked), those in favor of pit amplification said we were spinning fairy tales because corps would never do anything like that: there was no need to mic more than the occasional brass solo for effect because brass instruments were already plenty loud.

So it seems like an appropriate time to say: I told you so.

You were correct. And what's driven that change, IMHO is how corps now are staged. As we've towards more and more vertical staging, it's become more advantageous for corps to mic and amp to their hearts content. The race for the best technology is nothing new. I didn't much like Kevlar when I first played on in '88. Imagine how washed out drums would sound now if it weren't for Kevlar. 

Just to throw it out there too, I was pretty critical of some pit mic'ing this year (especially early season PR.) As Jeff stated earlier, mic'ing a pit can go very well (Bluecoats '16,) or HORRIBLY wrong such as stated above with PR early. Live by the electonic doo-hickies, die by the electronic doo-hickies. 

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