Eleran Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said: Read the article I posted, it's one example of a major instrumental music organization that is using the same techniques I've described in the thread to change the acoustics of the venue. And not to belabor the point, but I did a little more looking at the SF Soundbox venue which you offer up as evidence of symphonies going electronic. Five years into this experiment, and the entire annual 2018-2019 season of this wonderful electronic forefront of music consisted of a grand total of 6 nights. With a 500 capacity venue, that's 3,000 audience members for the entire year, whereas Davies Hall packs in just under 3,000 each performance, and plays roughly 150 times a year. 450,000 audience members a year in one city may not be Taylor Swift territory by a long shot, but please don't tell me that a 3,000/year electronics experiment is heralding the demise of a 450,000/year acoustic institution. Edit: PS - they don't even allow audience members under 21 because serving alcohol is apparently as important as the art. Edited August 9, 2019 by Eleran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, MikeD said: There have been assertions that Dennis is pushing something because he is associated with Yamaha...that would qualify as a "conspiracy" theory. Ok - I thought it was conspiracy by the corps to hide exactly what was being done. I have no comments on Dennis D.and any motives he might or might not have. Understand you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One n Done Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: The twisting and conspiracy theorizing that some people are grasping at here would be hilarious if it wasn't so nutty. Maybe they just decided that A&E added value to the shows and contribute to a more professional and pleasing production, and they are rewarding the groups that are taking advantage of these new options to create better products? Maybe it's as simple as accepting that the judges and designers believe A&E makes corps sounds better and assists with clarity of intent? Drum corps is a niche activity. Well, the marching arts as a whole is a niche activity, with drum corps being a small subset of that. To suggest that there is some conspiratorial lobbying going on to change the rules just to sell field systems to 30 or so units, is insane. There are plenty of adults making money from the activity. Not unlike ultra competitive youth sports. The biggest winners in both are product and equipment manufacturers and retailers. No conspiracy. But it would be naive to think that money doesn’t play a part in the direction of the activity. I don’t think it’s anywhere near being the prime driver for A&E. I think groups want an edge, want to stay in sight of that edge, and yes....sound better. But, don’t think for a moment that money doesn’t matter. I somehow doubt that our corporate partners are in this solely as a result of their altruistic principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, MikeD said: There have been assertions that Dennis is pushing something because he is associated with Yamaha...that would qualify as a "conspiracy" theory. Someone else coined "conspiracy". I contend "business decisions", not unbiased and, oh yea, human nature. Yamaha knows - ESPECIALLY in this activity - where it's bread is buttered. We fool ourselves into believing that the DCI BoD member-corps are able and willing to suspend their belief about what is best for their corps and vote rules changes that better the activity - a willful disregard for human nature. Let's not fool ourselves into believing that the corporate band world is any more able or willing. EDIT: And a few others who have hired from within the drum corps activity, then turn around and sell into it. Edited August 9, 2019 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak27 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Glenn426 said: While Yamaha might be an option for marching bands or Entry Level Amplification... The Speakers being used by some of these corps now are Speakers that are normally used at professional Outdoor Music Festivals.. They have a specific sound field that the Sound Designers used to fine tune the Sound output to make sure everyone in the stands get a good Stereo Sound (L,R) experience.. In my limited live experience this year (Akron show on Monday), the L/R aspect of the sound experience was nonexistent on several occasions, and particularly noteworthy with soloists who were staged left or right vs center. During these occasions, their mic'd output came through as a non-directional, uniform sound and one had to hunt/search for the location of said soloist. Likewise for corps with shotgun/field mics that picked up the battery - regardless of placement on the field, accents/rimshots came from all speakers with no directional aspect and were, by and large, overbearing in their intensity. When the SCV mello soloist's mic didn't work at the beginning of their show, everyone knew where they were on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said: They had Bluecoats' sound guy (the Cirque guy), Michael Klesch and Wayne Dillon (tonight's GE2 judge) talked for maybe 5 minutes. It was informative, not persuasive, in tone. Most of what they said are things you'd learn by reading DCP threads like this one. The biggest new material for me came from the judge. He specifically said: - the brass judge is only listening to the acoustic performance - you're allow to use pre-recorded brass as long as it lacks "rhythmic intent", while pre-recorded voice can have rhythmic intent. I thought it was a pretty good attempt by Dennis to get some of these ideas (like "sound reinforcement") explained to the larger DCI audience. the subjective bit about rhysthmic intent is part of the discussion that I don't trust. Another thing is - I wish the interviewer would have asked the sound guy / aka cirque guy his age. The main issues for me even after all these pages is - does the brass judge really only judge the acoustic performance? So it is obvious but lets say I am new to all this , but where are the brass judges located in relation to the performance. On the field or in the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: The marching music market is over 10,000 units. Showcasing products in DCI is one way to market to the worldwide marching music activities. And the question is out of the thousands of marching units what percentage will be willing to (or can afford to) buy the stuff and maintain it. Would love to know how many mb use mics, sound board and ear buds like I am reading here. Lol can picture selling to the school board or parents. MB is an educational activity... and if the kids sound isn’t quite right the adult behind the sound board can tweak it. Edited August 9, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Glenn426 said: I am starting to doubt this.. Some of the sound patches Especially in the Second Movement of Bluecoats show,, has continuous sound that last for an entire Phrase... I'm starting to think that they might have sound patches that are pre-recorded to last an Entire phrase. So the isolated Entrances in the Drum Talk section for example are a grouping of 4-5 individual sounds with negative (silent) space inbetween.. And that those Sound patches are also triggered to coincide with "scene" changes from the main board where Individual Mics are turn on or off along with Level changes on the mics.. BINGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, E3D said: the subjective bit about rhysthmic intent is part of the discussion that I don't trust. Another thing is - I wish the interviewer would have asked the sound guy / aka cirque guy his age. The main issues for me even after all these pages is - does the brass judge really only judge the acoustic performance? So it is obvious but lets say I am new to all this , but where are the brass judges located in relation to the performance. On the field or in the stands. "Rhythmic intent". Someone please define WTH that means and how it is adjudicated in the live performance? Is "Drum Speak" an example of rhythmic intent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, gak27 said: In my limited live experience this year (Akron show on Monday), the L/R aspect of the sound experience was nonexistent on several occasions, and particularly noteworthy with soloists who were staged left or right vs center. During these occasions, their mic'd output came through as a non-directional, uniform sound and one had to hunt/search for the location of said soloist. Not surprised. I recall last year, when SCV made the effort to route solos to the nearest speaker, they were rewarded by those duelling baritone solos being absent from webcasts because Flo only picked up their central speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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