Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 12 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: Interesting. 2011 had the visual delights of Cadets' "Angels & Demons"; the musical lushness of BD's Bacharach music (with those dumb white houses, though); the last example of Michael Gaines old kaleidoscopic drill for Cavaliers, "Rach Star"; which annoyed me at the beginning of the season but which I do love; Phantom's second-to-last good show in "Juliet"; Madison's best show of the decade though sadly the absolute highlight didn't make the video, and all but one of the other Finalist shows were at least half good ("reBourne" is the exception), while apart from Glassmen's vampire show, almost nothing outside of Finals sticks in my memory. But the goo was still very bad that year. I'll have to give this some more thought. Thanks for responding. oh not everything was a hit in 11....but it was the first top to bottom noticeable shift away from deep for the sake of deep chop and bop phrases that always endedin a box with a power chord and body. It was also the year that things started to get more competitive, ie, some unpredictability, of which has grown since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 11 hours ago, barigirl78 said: Because of this thread, I looked at the closeups of the top six closely. I looked at horn bells for microphones. I looked at ears for earbuds. While I saw the occasional mic, I didn’t see enough that it was half the hornline. Other than the pit and a few soloists, I didn’t see a lot of earbuds. If anyone is doing this, it’s pretty stealthy. surgically implanted didnt you know? ( insert sarcasm here) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Fred Windish said: I agree. This is obviously a learned poster who knows what he/she is talking about. What I most like about this thread is the amount of new knowledge available. Some here are attempting to squeeze-out some sort of argumentative ‘win.’ Why? MarimbaManiac has much to offer all of us ! Only one poster has mentioned taking an L. as in win and lose. Why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 11 hours ago, One n Done said: Not so sure it’s quite as black and white as your questions, Brigand. Certain people on here need things to be THIS or THAT, but life is more often shades of gray. I think teams are taking rules right to the edge with sound reinforcement. In a couple instances, they’ve actually crossed that line. Placements matter. Competitors always seek an edge. Do I think it’s NECESSARY to mic 30 odd brass players wirelessly? No. Does it violate a rule? No. Do I think it provides an advantage? Yes. Can all in the top 12, let alone the “have nots” well outside the top 12, afford this? No. So, does it seem a bit disingenuous and/or unfair to do what the group in question is doing? I think so. There have been some well presented cases in this discussion for the pro’s to audio engineering in the activity. Better quality sound, players not having to blow the horn apart, greater freedom in staging, etc... These seem like valid and plausible points to me. The activity left the VFW, tick system, and other things behind (in part) in a quest for greater creative freedom over the years. Reaching for new ways to engage an audience is nothing new. Again, for me, it’s a question of competition and “fair play”. It is overly simplistic, given the disparity in corps budgets, to say that since a certain group has the means and isn’t breaking a rule that they can mic 30+ brass players individually, and that it’s truly “fair”. Do I begrudge any corps for their financial strength? Absolutely not. It means they can tour, teach, and learn well and hopefully have a great experience. It IS the member corps that ultimately decide their own rules. So, it’s a head scratcher as to why a majority would sign on to something when their 2-3 million dollar operating budget is up against a small minority of groups operating with 3-4 times that funding. I’m not one for putting a leash on art, but I do think sound reinforcement could use more regulation than what has been opted for at this time. the members have to propose it. despite many rampant conspiracy theories over the yers, directors arent help at gunpoint to vote a certain way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: Just shouting "science" at the end of your argument does not make it correct. In reality, both you and garfield have made valid points. The truth is somewhere in between. Yes, standing alongside or behind a loudspeaker can allow you to dodge its sound to some degree. But it is only a matter of degree. If the speaker is loud enough, it will still be competing with the brass sounds. If speakers are positioned differently (or the judge has to move out of the path of performers), results will vary. The same directionality that helps the judge pick out high brass, leaves more of a challenge in isolating low brass sounds. And the judge has to fairly evaluate different hornlines against differing degrees of electronic interference. By the way, the corps sound engineers know science too... and they can use it to create electronic sound that resembles brass sound if that is what they desire. Oh, and while ear shape does lean in favor of sound in front of us, it does not "filter out" sounds from behind. If it did, our species would have gone extinct eons ago. Because science. Science Brah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 8 hours ago, jjeffeory said: Some feel entitled to be jerks sometimes; maybe because they have been around for a while, but I've been around just as long, but I try to spread respect with my disagreements. Nobody knows everything, but my input comes from living in 9 states and having students all over and being involved in the marching arts over 35 years, so I feel I'm not totally out of touch... I just don't talk about my background at all. Respect is #1 point of order. i am an ######## by birth, regardless of who you are. ask Garfield. I have however been very level headed and polite in this topic 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, garfield said: Subs can be placed nearly anywhere in a room. Science. Ever see a fan in the stands "cup" his ears? It's because that's a mechanical "filter" because the human ear can't filter out noises around it. Science. Hearing aids are programmable to attenuate the sounds coming from in front of the listener for times when, say, in a noisy ("Gooey") restaurant, sounds from behind and the side can't be filtered by the human ear. Science. Oh, and let's not forget those pesky battery drummers who are constantly muddying up the sound from the horns. Is the human ear able to filter those out as well? Because, you know, "science" says it can according to you. Nice CV, BTW. Not taking any of that away from you but, like the rest of us here, you frame your arguments to demonstrate how right and smart you are. Science Brah. Edited August 9, 2019 by E3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 7 hours ago, cixelsyd said: psst... I was referring to viewing live performances. you used the word recordings, hence my reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 6 hours ago, cixelsyd said: Well, no one wants to devote the time/effort to march, and have their corps branded as "older style" and punished competitively because of it. Not sure how much you can infer about personal preferences based on that. see Madison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar1974 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Last night I was at Prelims seated near the 30 so I had a good beam of amp sound in my ear. There were times when mid/high range synth notes were layered into loud sustained chords in addition to the low sub "goo" we've all grown accustomed to. One corps in particular- well regarded for its incredible horn line- seemed to have a lot of synth layering to add support for the horns. There appeared to be a loud synth sound used during impacts that sat somewhere in the sonic spectrum as a mellophone. The closing chord especially, the artificial layering and support was really noticeable. Seems a bit too smoke and mirrors to me, horn lines have never been better. The quality of the horn line talent is astounding but has a synthetic sheen to it. Since it is all legal, I guess it is perfectly okay for a corps to use brass synth patches to layer in perfectly in-tune/loud synthetic brass layers to the live performance. This is the way it is done in the pop world, you hear about 50% human and 50% machine. I think most pop music fans realize the dont really sound like that but are fine with it. DCI fans I assume want the real thing, not machine made. At what point do fans say enough is enough? I think most corps seemed to use A&E appropriately, but the added tech and capability make me wonder if what I am hearing is truly live or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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