E3D Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, PamahoNow said: Does this also mean the Visual designer should be a corps member? Does this mean the Percussion Arranger should be a corps member? Does this also mean the Brass Arranger should be a corps member? This is sheer lunacy. If not, why one and not the other? Certainly you may hold that opinion, but it has never been that way in DCI. Does the Sound engineer / designer have to do anything while the corps is performing? Are they making any adjustments to the sound? If so then that is different than the ones you mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Do the above people do anything that affects how the corps looks or sounds during the show itself? No idea what the sound person in question does during the show so same question applies The sound designer does NOTHING during the show itself. Just as the Visual designer does nothing during the show itself, nor does the percussion arranger do anything... Do we really have to point this out? Is this really confusing? They do, however, due to their design effect (not I think affect) what goes on during the show itself. If there were no visual designer, all heck would break out, I'm sure. If the percussion designer (arranger) did not arrange the music, what would you think would happen? If a corp just bought a bunch of electronic dohickies and placed them on the field not much would happen. A sound or audio engineer or designer functions in a similar way to any other designer of the corps show. When done designing, they go away (well, they may come back a time or two during a season, just as a visual designer might come back during the season, or a brass arranger might modify the score during the season. Again, I am amazed that this discussion has gone on as long as it has, and some seemingly DCP fanatics don't understand what a designer would do as opposed to what happens on the field. They are necessary, they may be good or bad, and the results on the field may be good or bad. You may not like a give sound design or not like electronics in DC at all. But there is not magic here. Again, just like a visual designer. They design, they do not perform and that they are older than 21 years old should come as no surprise. They may design well or badly, and the result on the field may be good or bad. But they are distinct and the age rules for participants has never (so far as I know) required that designers be eligible to march. The person we are talking about has a full time job in Las Vegas. Edited August 10, 2019 by PamahoNow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, E3D said: Does the Sound engineer / designer have to do anything while the corps is performing? Are they making any adjustments to the sound? If so then that is different than the ones you mention. No, just like the Visual designer has nothing to do while the corps is performing. Just like the brass arranger has nothing to do with the tuning of the brass instruments while the corps is performing. It the distinction between DESIGN and execution. The sound / audio designer is not even in the house when the corps performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3D Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, PamahoNow said: The sound designer does NOTHING during the show itself. Just as the Visual designer does nothing during the show itself, nor does the percussion arranger do anything... Do we really have to point this out? Is this really confusing? They do, however, due to their design effect (not I think affect) what goes on during the show itself. If there were no visual designer, all heck would break out, I'm sure. If the percussion designer (arranger) did not arrange the music, what would you think would happen? If a corp just bought a bunch of electronic dohickies and placed them on the field not much would happen. A sound or audio engineer or designer functions in a similar way to any other designer of the corps show. When done designing, they go away (well, they may come back a time or two during a season, just as a visual designer might come back during the season, or a brass arranger might modify the score during the season. Again, I am amazed that this discussion has gone on as long as it has, and some seemingly DCP fanatics don't understand what a designer would do as opposed to what happens on the field. They are necessary, they may be good or bad, and the results on the field may be good or bad. You may not like a give sound design or not like electronics in DC at all. But there is not magic here. Again, just like a visual designer. They design, they do not perform and that they are older than 21 years old should come as no surprise. They may design well or badly, and the result on the field may be good or bad. But they are distinct and the age rules for participants has never (so far as I know) required that designers be eligible to march. The person we are talking about has a full time job in Las Vegas. if it is exactly as you post then yes I agree. I have heard that there is manipulation being done during the show. That is my fall out on it. I will leave you alone, as I can tell it really is bothering you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, E3D said: if it is exactly as you post then yes I agree. I have heard that there is manipulation being done during the show. That is my fall out on it. I will leave you alone, as I can tell it really is bothering you. Yes, manipulation of the sound board is (or may be) done during the show. But the sound designer has nothing to do with it. My concern is just that some (including you) seem to think that the Sound Designer is doing that. I'm often in concert halls or theaters and I see a sound board. And it get's manipulated during a show or concert (mics are turned on/off if nothing else). But that is not a job that a sound designer does. It is the same in DC. if there is a sound board it is manipulated. You may want that that person be a member (and count agains the 154 members). I believe (and I could be wrong about this) that this has been addressed in various rules/regulations/decisions made by the member corps of DCI. And I'm sure that they are all abiding by what is "legal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, E3D said: Does the Sound engineer / designer have to do anything while the corps is performing? Are they making any adjustments to the sound? If so then that is different than the ones you mention. If the sound designer has done their job correctly, they shouldn't have to do anything during the show. Levels and scenes are set in rehearsals, the system is set to the stored environmental preset, they test to make sure everything works, and that's it. If everything goes well they sit on their hands and let the show play out. They might make small adjustments throughout the show to deal with unforeseen environmental issues (due to there not being adequate soundchecks), but unless there is a catastrophic failure, they probably don't do much. The muting/unmuting of channels, changing of levels for individual microphones, or cueing of soundfiles/samples is all probably automated and controlled by the performers. Of course it all depends on how sophisticated the rig is, and what system they are using, but it's completely possible/probable that this is the case. Hypothetical example: The corps reaches a transition point. -> Someone in the front ensemble triggers an event with a midi controller of come kind -> The program being used (Mainstage/Ableton/Max MSP/etc.) recognizes that input and automatically triggers a series of events for that particular moment. -> Mic channels are unmuted, others interpolate closed over a set amount of time, a sample/sound file plays, another begins to fade out, and levels adjust across the board. Then the computer waits for the next input to detected. I have no direct knowledge of what exactly these designers are using, but that type of "one touch" system is pretty standard and easy to build. I work with performers and live electronics on a daily basis, and create performance environments for them to use during the performances. All of the patches I create are designed to allow the performer to run the piece completely independently by simply pushing a foot pedal. That "one touch" will trigger dozens of processes and adjustments, from playing sound files, to adjusting microphone and output levels, changing settings in the live DSP, turning on or off video streams, etc. etc. etc. The possibilities are literally endless. Most likely, the performers do 95% of the work during the performance, and the sound board operator (most likely NOT the designer on a daily basis), sits at the board to make sure things don't blow up. It's not like they are sitting there turning mics on and off and adjusting volumes in real time. *again, I can't speak to the details for each corps, but this is my best guess based on my experience* Edited August 10, 2019 by MarimbaManiac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I'm looking right now at BAC performing. There are two folks looking at the sound board. Everyone can see them. Nothing is done behind a screen of secrecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamahoNow Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I yield the the superior knowledge of MM. I'm now watching the Cavies, and the person at the sound board is moving their hands so I'm guessing they are doing something, what I have no idea. I do know that the person sitting ... oops standing at the sound board is not in the best position to hear how the sound is heard in the rest of the venue. The discussion was about the role of Aaron Beck with the Bluecoats. And E3D was concerned that he was too old to be the sound designer. Because the sound designer should be of age of a MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 10 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: I should have put money down on the odds of you coming in to praise that show. 2004 Crown was my favorite show of that year, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Eleran said: Here in central NJ I'd say that all (or nearly all) HS marching bands use amplification of the front ensemble, and often stationary microphones for soloists (from brass to flutes). Many also occasionally use clip-on microphones for individual soloists staged away from the sideline. Soundboards are usually manned by the band director or an assistant director (i.e. an adult, since that question will probably be asked). And frankly (though Mike at West Windsor will disagree), the vast majority of A&E does not represent an improvement in sound in my opinion. Oh, I absolutely disagree! 😃 Miccing the pit is one of the very best things to happen to mallets since they were introduced to the marching idiom. I notice a huge difference in the pit sound with the band I taught when we did not set up the sound system, and we were not as sophisticated as many. Plus as I had said earlier, when we had 19 total winds one year (2002), we micced all of them except piccs, 1st trumpet and the trombone player. Some samples of required A&E for featured parts.: When I used a flute soloist to open the Ghost Train show, she played into a mic located in the pit, and then the train whistle used the same one. Another year we had an english horn feature, and that was micced too. The cellist we used for two years, our Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon show and Sweeney Todd, used an electric cello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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