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23 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

See...that worries me to no end. The directors of those bands should be happy that they have kids who are reaching out for an additional source of education. Do they somehow get penalized for marching holes? 

I'm guessing this comes down to outreach from DCA and the corps themselves to the directors and school system. Missing a competition because you're at rehersal with your corps....that I get. But a halftime show?!?!? 

DCI I can kinda get. I know when I marched, I had a director who had marched troopers and one who had marched Spirit. They understood that I would learn the drill and music and would be all in when I came to the next rehersal. I just want to know what happened. Surely not all of these cats in charge of band programs have gotten somehow screwed by kids marching corps. I think my directors also understood that if I was given an ultimatum, corps would win. The level of learning was much higher and I was gonna go where the talent was. Getting an A in band was not as important to me as being the best musician I could be was. You want an All State level player so you have some bragging rites? Then let them learn from the best in the business. 

This all sounds like an ego contest to me.

This goes back to the Big Ten schools and local colleges. You have Ohio State University which is 1.) nearly the largest public college in the US and graduates loads of local band directors 2.) Central State University & Kentucky State which graduate HBCU Band directors locally who go and populate a lot of schools 3.) Ohio University  and Akron which while not as well known as OSUMB, has its own culture and populates band directors throughout the state 4.) Uni of Cincinnati pulls from a lot of BOA Finalist bands locally and is more friendly to drum corps.

My point being Ohio is basically a continual cycle that feeds into itself -> 1.) Student goes to HS with a Show Style or HBCU band, who's band director went to OSU, OU, Akron, or Central State 2.) Band is very successful performing Moffett drill and sends lots of kids to OSU, OU, Central, Akron etc for Music Ed 3.) Student takes local band director job at a school with a Show Style or HBCU Band and develops the next generation. The loss of the Division 2 and 3 local corps; plus Glassmen changed all of that as WGI has risen to fill the void and allow kids to not miss band camp or any school events typically (plus it's way cheaper).

I'm not being facetious in saying this is how it's been for 50+ years in Ohio, and is strangely growing due to the internet age. OSUMB putting out top notch videos; we have students who marched our corps and also did WGI or came from BOA bands who opted to not do drum corps and march OSUMB or OU. YOU CANNOT MISS ANY GAMES IN THE OSUMB and nearly the same at OU 110. HS Band Directors from those schools often take the same approach in our experience - "you can't miss the Friday game. You can't miss band camp for drum corps finals."

Rural schools are a mixed bag as their directors sometimes will let one or two kids go, but when you have a band of 30 people, missing 4 to go to DCA finals is also a no-go. 75% of our corps members are from rural or non-competitive show style bands; we get minimal students from HS competitive bands. Since you can't miss the Friday game then students have to wait and leave at like 4AM to make it to 10AM rehearsal for Prelims at 4PM. For DCI; school starts the 3rd week of August, so you even have jr. corps members who do march at OSUMB and literally have to be driven back after midnight to Columbus for auditions on Sunday morning after DCI Final. For HS kids, band camp is sometimes already going on, or in week two of part-time band camp so you've missed all that and have to learn. A lot of directors see this and are like "no thanks." 

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13 hours ago, brigscadm said:

OMEA had 120 bands in their state marching band finals last year at 4 different sites.....none were big 10 clones

Yes, and that's less than 15% of the total HS Bands, in the state, with ZERO from the largest districts in the state, save Firestone from Akron.

State OMEA shifted in the late nineties towards Corps Styles bands placing higher so most of the non-corps style bands, or hybrid Big Ten Bands go to local non-adjudicated shows. Massive 200+ person Show Style Bands like Niles, Boardman, Stow Munroe-Falls, Hudson, Cuyahoga Falls, Green, Orange, Anthony Wayne, and sooo many others just don't participate in Marching State Finals but then go and do Concert and Solo & Ensemble.

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16 minutes ago, lcarlton said:

This goes back to the Big Ten schools and local colleges. You have Ohio State University which is 1.) nearly the largest public college in the US and graduates loads of local band directors 2.) Central State University & Kentucky State which graduate HBCU Band directors locally who go and populate a lot of schools 3.) Ohio University  and Akron which while not as well known as OSUMB, has its own culture and populates band directors throughout the state 4.) Uni of Cincinnati pulls from a lot of BOA Finalist bands locally and is more friendly to drum corps.

My point being Ohio is basically a continual cycle that feeds into itself -> 1.) Student goes to HS with a Show Style or HBCU band, who's band director went to OSU, OU, Akron, or Central State 2.) Band is very successful performing Moffett drill and sends lots of kids to OSU, OU, Central, Akron etc for Music Ed 3.) Student takes local band director job at a school with a Show Style or HBCU Band and develops the next generation. The loss of the Division 2 and 3 local corps; plus Glassmen changed all of that as WGI has risen to fill the void and allow kids to not miss band camp or any school events typically (plus it's way cheaper).

I'm not being facetious in saying this is how it's been for 50+ years in Ohio, and is strangely growing due to the internet age. OSUMB putting out top notch videos; we have students who marched our corps and also did WGI or came from BOA bands who opted to not do drum corps and march OSUMB or OU. YOU CANNOT MISS ANY GAMES IN THE OSUMB and nearly the same at OU 110. HS Band Directors from those schools often take the same approach in our experience - "you can't miss the Friday game. You can't miss band camp for drum corps finals."

Rural schools are a mixed bag as their directors sometimes will let one or two kids go, but when you have a band of 30 people, missing 4 to go to DCA finals is also a no-go. 75% of our corps members are from rural or non-competitive show style bands; we get minimal students from HS competitive bands. Since you can't miss the Friday game then students have to wait and leave at like 4AM to make it to 10AM rehearsal for Prelims at 4PM. For DCI; school starts the 3rd week of August, so you even have jr. corps members who do march at OSUMB and literally have to be driven back after midnight to Columbus for auditions on Sunday morning after DCI Final. For HS kids, band camp is sometimes already going on, or in week two of part-time band camp so you've missed all that and have to learn. A lot of directors see this and are like "no thanks." 

Makes sense. And in those circumstances, I can see where they're coming from. In a small band situation, you wouldn't want 20% of your members missing. It's a shame since the band director would be getting (most likely,) a better marcher / player with strong work ethic. In the South, we have very large band programs. Even those band directors though are not allowing (much less pushing) the kids towards the high level education they would get in corps. The band directors who marched corps have all retired. 

I guess it's a balance thing. My band directors always wantes the students to get the best education possible. For 3 of us, that was corps. I'm not saying directors don't have that same level of desire for their students anymore, but it does bring a strong focus back to if they truly understand what corps can do for them and their program. My participation in corps helped me to convince one of my directors to hire corps staff for techs. We had some pretty decent lines that grew into monster lines (for a high school.) 

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On 8/14/2019 at 12:53 PM, Weaklefthand4ever said:

See...that worries me to no end. The directors of those bands should be happy that they have kids who are reaching out for an additional source of education. Do they somehow get penalized for marching holes? 

I'm guessing this comes down to outreach from DCA and the corps themselves to the directors and school system. Missing a competition because you're at rehersal with your corps....that I get. But a halftime show?!?!? 

DCI I can kinda get. I know when I marched, I had a director who had marched troopers and one who had marched Spirit. They understood that I would learn the drill and music and would be all in when I came to the next rehersal. I just want to know what happened. Surely not all of these cats in charge of band programs have gotten somehow screwed by kids marching corps. I think my directors also understood that if I was given an ultimatum, corps would win. The level of learning was much higher and I was gonna go where the talent was. Getting an A in band was not as important to me as being the best musician I could be was. You want an All State level player so you have some bragging rites? Then let them learn from the best in the business. 

This all sounds like an ego contest to me.

It's a value quotient for some of the directors. Some don't see DCA, DCI Open Class, or at the time SoundSport worthwhile and such they won't let their kids go. This also impacted other circuits like MACBDA with Ohio's Warren County Jr Military Band which basically folded under some challenges with getting kids due to early summer band commitments (and more). If the experience we're providing isn't better than what their kids, or heavily conflicts with their school and state competition schedule then they'll say no. The first OMEA competition takes place over labor day ; plus the first sometimes second football game is the Friday of labor day. Some directors have a problem with their kids missing.

In 2016 a director was furious that 6 of her students were marching drum corps and had to leave band camp 6 hours early to go to DCI FInals for SoundSport. It ended up with a parent meeting with the director, principal and superintendent. The band director was told that they don't have control over what kids can do outside of school, but also told the parents the students have to meet school obligations. So what ended up happening was the kids weren't able to carpool together to finals from the band camp site; the director REFUSED to release the kids unless it was to each of their parents/guardians so 3 parents had to drive 2 hours down to camp; pick up their kids; then load them into one vehicle for a parent to go. One kid straight up quit a week before as his director told him that since he was a section leader he couldn't leave early or lose his spot. 

We have another school; very friendly overall but we're not allowed to actively recruit their kids. We have members from the school in the program starting as 8th graders and staying in the corps for years, but cannot actually have more from the band. These are just examples but it goes on and on. For us, the focus has been on rural schools of 50 or more; it seems to be that happy medium where directors see the value... the challenge is just convincing the kids they actually have the skill and that we'll teach them how to be better. For many it's been the gateway to getting into WGI, DCI World, and College band which the directors see and appreciate and still support programs. This isn't just an issue for our corps; had the same challenges when a lot of us marched at Tradition. 

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7 hours ago, BigW said:

Under C in the encyclopedia in the Comfort Food entry. Can't get it in any of the rather snazzy NJ diners.

But you can get a really good tuna melt at any NJ diner worth its salt. And gravy on the fries. :tongue:

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Question for the above posts (except Frans lol)....

If a band member does corps and comes back a better player/marcher how much of that shows on a field full of band members? Yes the person themselves improves but how much does the band improve?

thought here is some directors care about the band lot more than what good is done for the individual

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2 hours ago, lcarlton said:

It's a value quotient for some of the directors. Some don't see DCA, DCI Open Class, or at the time SoundSport worthwhile and such they won't let their kids go.

Some view it as a threat to their authority. Some view it as a negative. Knew a couple in college that thought this activity was a waste of time and stupid. One is still actively bashing it in their NJ position last I knew, and other is a Trombone professor at a fairly respected School of Music.

 

Sadly one can't change those positions from those types 97 percent of the time. The one guy I knew who flipped was because his daughter ended up with Crossmen Front Ensemble and it was mind boggling how his tune changed after her experience.

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6 minutes ago, BigW said:

As for Downtown... I liked Bullfrog Brewery for some interesting Craft Libations that tested pretty good!  

I also liked Moon and Raven.

Went to Bullfrog after the alumni show... I agree, good stuff there!

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