DrumScorps

DCI World Championship Semis - Friday, August 9, 2019

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4 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:

Since I don't think anybody has posted the numbers yet, here's where we stand for the caption awards.

GE: Bluecoats (BD need +0.45 Saturday to tie)

Visual Performance: Blue Devils (Bluecoats need +0.3 Saturday to tie) 

Guard: Blue Devils (Crusaders needs +0.05 Saturday to tie)

Brass: Crown (Bluecoats need +0.15 Saturday to tie)

Percussion: Vanguard (BD need +0.35 Saturday to tie)

Just like last year, Guard is the only one of these that is up for grabs at finals.

Just a reminder as well, if any of those corps that are trailing get that score they need to tie, then they’ll not just tie but also win since the tie breaker is the higher placement at finals (which they will obviously have since they’re currently trailing)

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6 minutes ago, Cfmninjaa said:

I was okay with the current system and to a certain extent I still am. My main issue is the need to spread after slotting a corps. I get that the most important thing is getting the placements right but I have notice spreads being formed to the point where a corps get scored almost unfairly. Like a corps in like 12th place gets underscored and a corps in 1st getting overscored. I noticed something like this in 2014 when BD got their record score of 99.650. I personally do not think that is an accurate score. Dont get me wrong, it was probably the greatest performance I had ever seen from a corps but I detected visual flaws in a show that got a perfect score in Visual. Could it have anything to do with the corps directly underneath them receiving too high of a score in that caption. Same with GE and Music.

 

Back to my point:

 

I feel that DCI should change the way that corps are scored. I like that they are getting the placements right but I feel the scores at times are a little inaccurate.

 

Another side note: I dont like the fact that GE is valued more than Music and Visual.

 

(Sorry if you were confused reading this)

posted from the DrumScorps app

The fact the GE is valued more that Music and Visual came from Michael Cesario feeling that the shows were become less entertaining for the paying audience.  I agreed with him then and told him so personally.   He was and is the drum corps fans biggest friend.  And  I still think it was the right thing to do.  Are people today saying that the shows are very entertaining, for virtually the entire top 25?  Yes.  Would they be without the precedence given to GE?  No.

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8 hours ago, jasgre2000 said:

Alright. Time for pizza, vodka, and ########### See you tomorrow everyone.

Watch your language.

Edited by MikeD
Filter circumvention

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24 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I did leave but I had to pee like a racehorse.  I did watch Spartans yesterday and today earlier. 

A little too much information?

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28 minutes ago, Cfmninjaa said:

I was okay with the current system and to a certain extent I still am. My main issue is the need to spread after slotting a corps. I get that the most important thing is getting the placements right but I have notice spreads being formed to the point where a corps get scored almost unfairly. Like a corps in like 12th place gets underscored and a corps in 1st getting overscored. I noticed something like this in 2014 when BD got their record score of 99.650. I personally do not think that is an accurate score. Dont get me wrong, it was probably the greatest performance I had ever seen from a corps but I detected visual flaws in a show that got a perfect score in Visual. Could it have anything to do with the corps directly underneath them receiving too high of a score in that caption. Same with GE and Music.

 

Back to my point:

 

I feel that DCI should change the way that corps are scored. I like that they are getting the placements right but I feel the scores at times are a little inaccurate.

 

Another side note: I dont like the fact that GE is valued more than Music and Visual.

 

(Sorry if you were confused reading this)

posted from the DrumScorps app

Unless things have changed, I was taught years ago on this forum there is no perfect score in DCI, only maximum score. I made that near fatal mistake when i congratulated BDs CG for getting a PERFECT score on finals night 2012. I was swiftly ripped to shreds on this forum and almost entered the witness protection program. I was told by many that BDs Guard didn't get a perfect score they only achieved the maximum. But then again some of the same people that attacked me was congratulating Crown on their perfect score in brass the following year in 2013. So idk. Maybe it depends on the corps. If we like you, its perfect, if we don't like you, it's maximum.

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44 minutes ago, jasgre2000 said:

Alright. Time for pizza, vodka, and Schitt's Creek. See you tomorrow everyone.

you speak my language

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2 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

I did leave but I had to pee like a racehorse.

Standing up outdoors?

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55 minutes ago, bgg80 said:

What exactly is the past score history approach?   I'd argue you need to look at a finals judge, judging the caption he/she is covering on Finals night, judging BD and BC head to head.  And .. I'd argue in the past three weeks.  Anything earlier?   hmmmm

If the "past score history approach" is judges scores outside of head to head matchups ... well ... there are plenty of lectures on this forum about assuming anything from comparing scores from separate shows.

I didn't do an exhaustive search, but I can't find too many examples of head to head, same captions with Finals judges this season.  GE judges?  Stone had BC over BD by .1 .... three weeks ago.  Jones had BC over BD by .1.  Similar GE caption gaps tonight.  Although an interesting one -- Dillon had BC over BD in GE recently .... and guess who he went for tonight?  BD by .05.  

It all goes to say ... don't overthink or overanalyze panel "bias".  Performance level matters bigtime.  2015 is a classic example, with a similar "panel stacked for Crown" proclamations.   What a great season!  Good luck to both "Blues"

The method isn't perfect, but sometimes is pretty close.   The year Crown won, it was off by about .2 on the point spread I think and predicted the correct winner

To predict what each finals week judge will do, it basically uses the head to head scores between two corps for the entire season for that one judge.  If there is just one show, it uses that show's spread.  If more than one show, it uses the average spread. 

You're right,  the further back the head to heads are, it might become less accurate.   And if there are NO head to heads (which happened for 3 of the 2019 finals judges),  it uses the score for the other one corps at another show on or closest to the same date, with another judge.   I know, not good to do that, but have to use something for a best guest.

Then just add up the point spreads for all the judges that favor one corps and then add up the point spreads that favor the other corps.  The corps with the larger of the point spread sub totals is the predicted winner. Then subtract the smaller point spread from the larger point spread to get the total point spread. 

It has become much quicker and easier to get the judges data using a website called FrontEnsemble.com .  It has every score given by every judge for every show for the whole season. You can look at one judge and only 2 corps that they may have judged in all the  shows for that judge, and see their scores in a nice chart.  I have to give a lot of credit to who ever developed that site and gathered all that data.  That was lot of work.

It's fun to try it and see how close you can come to the actual results.  I have an engineering degree (which the self discipline i learned in drum corps definitely helped me get), so i think it's usually better to figure out a problem based on data and facts than on "feelings".  The marketing guys and lawyers picking a jury hate people who think like that.

I used to think that a show result depended mostly on the run a corps has and less on judges bias (intentional or unintentional).   Poor naive former me.  Now I think it's the opposite.  Why do you think DCI releases the finals week judging panels on Thursday of finals week?  It's because in past decades, the finals panels used to be released much earlier in the season. Then the corps would tailor their show design only to the judges (and their bias) that were judging finals and pretty much ignore the other judges. It's kind of like knowing all the answers to a test months ahead of time. You spend all your time going in one direction and not explore other designs that other judges might like and have a wider variety of shows that the audiences might like better (like we have today).  Those staffs were smart.  They knew that psychologically,  when one of those finals judges gave them an opinion early in the season,  they would tend not to change the opinion as to not make themselves look bad.   That's what this method is based on. That judges tend to keep same opinion (or close to the same opinion) about a corps and it's show for the entire season.  And since there aren't "tics" any more (that some would argue are a better way to judge the execution captions and not have to resort to slotting),  the only things left are the judge's opinion and their psychology.  The method obviously only works after you find out who the finals judges are, which is very late in the season now.  We find out the same time the corps do,   so it's pretty much too late to for them to tailor their shows to the finals panel in major ways, but we have enough time to go back through the earlier data and make our predictions based on past biases. Of course, when a judge does change an opinion from earlier, it tends to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing.

 

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