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1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

yup

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

or membership being coed

Wrong again. But you know that. You’re a smart insightful guy. You’re just stirring the pot here. 

Going coed - as a diversionary tactic in an attempt to move attention away from the leadership failures - is the issue.  Membership being coed is not the issue. 

Edited by HockeyDad
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Agreed in total.  The diversion tactic is the issue.  The river of denial runs very deep on this one.  

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7 minutes ago, wilder1966 said:

Agreed in total.  The diversion tactic is the issue.  The river of denial runs very deep on this one.  

Not going to argue diversion but are you saying coed is not an issue to some?

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20 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Another honest question... do corps (especially non top x ones) come out and tell members what they are shooting for in placement? Was in a rebuilding corps and management did tell us but it was always realistic, but one we’d have to break our butts to attain.

must have worked as went from inactive to top 10 in 4 seasons... and top 5 3 seasons after that...

In my experience, it depends on the staff, but that was never done when I marched at Madison... 2007 Spirit it was commonly mentioned after the regional that the goal was to make finals. 2008 Madison, I think a lot of us had high expectations throughout camps and all days. Then when scores started rolling in it became apparent that we were fighting for finals and the membership knew that but it was never communicated from staff. We were just told to keep working hard and that year's staff pushed us really hard. In 2009, it was apparent early on that the show sucked. I think a lot of us thought we'd still make finals after all the changes, but staff never mentioned placements. In 2010 I think we all thought we were better than the scores reflected. Placement was never discussed as a goal but we were told by a brass staff member that we should care about the scores which was in conflict with a lot of the membership beliefs and with what we were told by the admins. Donnie VanDoren told me in a private conversation that his belief was that it should take 5 years for any hornline to build a program that competes for the Jim Ott award and that the corps could be a medalist within that same time span with the staff we had. Jim Mason also told me that he thought it would be 5 years to become a top corps. That was never pushed on the members but I think that kind of word had spread throughout the corps that it was the expectation and belief. I remember Jim's thing was "Play the game, win the game, change the game." In 2011 I think most of us thought we were getting gypped so no one really cared about the scores. That was the summer of a lifetime for me with the experiences we had performing that show in New York. I believe that the reason that the 5 year plans were never met was in large part due to the hole that had been dug in the previous few years and that the 2014 show was a step in the right direction even though the placements were stagnant. That show was significantly more difficult than the previous shows and really propelled the corps forward. I wish we could have seen Jim continue to design shows, but at least 2015 represented another step forward. Sadly, show design since then has been lacking. I have high hopes for J-Robb's tenure.

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2 hours ago, FlamMan said:

Wrong.

after all you've said, a ring would suddenly make you sunshine and unicorns?

 

horse ####

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1 hour ago, HockeyDad said:

 

Wrong again. But you know that. You’re a smart insightful guy. You’re just stirring the pot here. 

Going coed - as a diversionary tactic in an attempt to move attention away from the leadership failures - is the issue.  Membership being coed is not the issue. 

i am a smart guy and after all of the bashing several have done here and elsewhere, in some very personally attacking ways, theres no way everything is sunshine and unicorns with a ring.

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

after all you've said, a ring would suddenly make you sunshine and unicorns?

 

horse ####

Nah unicorn ####... it’s sparkly.....

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53 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

i am a smart guy and after all of the bashing several have done here and elsewhere, in some very personally attacking ways, theres no way everything is sunshine and unicorns with a ring.

There’s also no way the leadership team gets them a ring. So we’re in fantasyland where I guess you can assume anything. Since it isn’t going to happen. 

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23 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

There’s also no way the leadership team gets them a ring. So we’re in fantasyland where I guess you can assume anything. Since it isn’t going to happen. 

i don't assume.

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20 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

i don't assume.

Uh-huh. Your past several posts on how people would react to a hypothetical have all been assumptions. Your first and most basic assumption being:  if they were to win a ring...

Also since you seem to like to get the last word, I’ll go ahead and say I’m moving on from this sidebar. 

Edited by HockeyDad

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