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3 hours ago, cybersnyder said:

Cadets may not be considered an asset, but the trucks are. 

So, how much of a million dollar debt does a highly customized equipment trailer offset in a liquidation sale?  I can tell you how much the staff-sleeper is worth, and you can buy empty trailers galore for $2,500.  The kitchen probably has value, but I'll leave to someone else to describe what it may be worth to another drum corps.  All told, I'd be shocked to find out that their rolling stock is worth $100m.

Most likely, a bk judge will look at the equipment that Cadets took as being the minimum necessary for them to provide their mission.  Generally, bk judges don't look to destroy what's good about an org facing liquidation.  If the bk judge is actually a Blue Knights' vet (see what I did there? Heh.) he might enjoy being the last nail in Cadets' coffin.  But, I would argue that the societal benefit of Cadets continuing to provide their mission is worth much more, if even only societal benefit, than settling Cadets' equipment for cents on the dollar. 

Also, it's unlikely that a judge is going to interject his financial views into an agreement made between the parties, and I doubt many judges would be familiar enough with the demands of a competitive drum corps to suggest one number might be more appropriate than another.  The parties don't have to agree to allow YEA! to spin off Cadets, and almost anyone can see that Cadets are YEA!'s biggest obligation and anchor.  I would imagine a judge would whole-heartedly agree to let YEA! spin that off.

 

 

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12 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Well. If you remember they were also with another corps that year ( staff ) Your details are for sure right but all I will add is that at some point near the time of Whitewater a warning had been given. If you remember, a great staff, a new approach, a new era beginning etc. etc. and along with that came a bit of arrogance .

I assume you’re talking about SCV. Not sure how that relates to a timing issue with Garfield’s show. Unless you mean the staff was preoccupied with the other corps?

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25 minutes ago, garfield said:

So, how much of a million dollar debt does a highly customized equipment trailer offset in a liquidation sale?  I can tell you how much the staff-sleeper is worth, and you can buy empty trailers galore for $2,500.  The kitchen probably has value, but I'll leave to someone else to describe what it may be worth to another drum corps.  All told, I'd be shocked to find out that their rolling stock is worth $100m.

Most likely, a bk judge will look at the equipment that Cadets took as being the minimum necessary for them to provide their mission.  Generally, bk judges don't look to destroy what's good about an org facing liquidation.  If the bk judge is actually a Blue Knights' vet (see what I did there? Heh.) he might enjoy being the last nail in Cadets' coffin.  But, I would argue that the societal benefit of Cadets continuing to provide their mission is worth much more, if even only societal benefit, than settling Cadets' equipment for cents on the dollar. 

Also, it's unlikely that a judge is going to interject his financial views into an agreement made between the parties, and I doubt many judges would be familiar enough with the demands of a competitive drum corps to suggest one number might be more appropriate than another.  The parties don't have to agree to allow YEA! to spin off Cadets, and almost anyone can see that Cadets are YEA!'s biggest obligation and anchor.  I would imagine a judge would whole-heartedly agree to let YEA! spin that off.

 

 

Good points, just saying that there is definitely a risk and I hope the Cadets have competent counsel.

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46 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

I assume you’re talking about SCV. Not sure how that relates to a timing issue with Garfield’s show. Unless you mean the staff was preoccupied with the other corps?

There ya go...lol...At least there were many who thought so. That and a few other reasons I gave can be a combination that gets in the way.

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1 hour ago, garfield said:

So, how much of a million dollar debt does a highly customized equipment trailer offset in a liquidation sale?  I can tell you how much the staff-sleeper is worth, and you can buy empty trailers galore for $2,500.  The kitchen probably has value, but I'll leave to someone else to describe what it may be worth to another drum corps.  All told, I'd be shocked to find out that their rolling stock is worth $100m.

Most likely, a bk judge will look at the equipment that Cadets took as being the minimum necessary for them to provide their mission.  Generally, bk judges don't look to destroy what's good about an org facing liquidation.  If the bk judge is actually a Blue Knights' vet (see what I did there? Heh.) he might enjoy being the last nail in Cadets' coffin.  But, I would argue that the societal benefit of Cadets continuing to provide their mission is worth much more, if even only societal benefit, than settling Cadets' equipment for cents on the dollar. 

Also, it's unlikely that a judge is going to interject his financial views into an agreement made between the parties, and I doubt many judges would be familiar enough with the demands of a competitive drum corps to suggest one number might be more appropriate than another.  The parties don't have to agree to allow YEA! to spin off Cadets, and almost anyone can see that Cadets are YEA!'s biggest obligation and anchor.  I would imagine a judge would whole-heartedly agree to let YEA! spin that off.

 

 

As I've posted,I've been involved in several bankruptcy proceedings, where I was one of the creditors trying to secure payment from a client who had declared bankruptcy.

None of these case involved non-profits,so the issue of "societal impact" never came up.

The proceedings were only concerned with dollars and cents,with the creditors,not the debtor,being the injured party.

As far as the "agreement made between the parties".

Unless that includes creditors,I don't know how much "value"  it has in a

bankruptcy proceeding. 

The issue of things like shield laws,etc. has been discussed in detail here.

I also don't know  what a judge, looking at this from he outside,

would consider the "societal impact" of the Cadets "folding".

There would of course be a huge emotional impact.

I've been a Cadets fan going back to "Garfield".Losing the corps and their traditions would hurt,big time.

But,looking at it objectively,the activity (DCI) continues.

Prospective members can go to other corps.

Other organizations could form a new corps.

So, from a judge's perspective,how much of a "societal impact" would there be ?

I would hope that  YEA/the Cadets looked into all of this with financial and legal 

experts,before "pulling the trigger" on splitting off the Cadets.

Hopefully they can into detail on this tomorrow night.

 

 

Edited by rpbobcat
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35 minutes ago, cybersnyder said:

Good points, just saying that there is definitely a risk and I hope the Cadets have competent counsel.

I have a feeling with the ######## they’ve endured in recent years, they got people making sure they don’t get ####ed again.

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7 hours ago, garfield said:

Exactly what "Asset" is Cadets to YEA!?

"...shed assets..."?  

You're looking at this the wrong way. YEA ran up some huge bus bills for The Cadets over the past few years. YEA also borrowed a bunch of money from banks over the past few years.

Spinning the Cadets out as its own entity does not absolve the new Cadets entity of its liability to pay those debts, to the extent that the new Cadets entity is a "successor" of YEA, which under the law it certainly is.

You don't just get to abandon debt by moving a business unit out the back door. If that worked, the law of obligations would not exist.

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CADETS OPERATIONS MANAGEMENT WEBINAR / FEB 20
Want to learn more about The Cadets for this summer?

Here is your chance to learn all about The Cadets Executive Team lead by Cadets Director and DCI Hall of Fame Member, Denise Bonfiglio. Go to live.cadets.org to join this webinar Thursday, February 20, at 8:00 pm EST. #cadets2020 #cadetslive #cadetsleadership

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Edited by njthundrrd
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1 hour ago, njthundrrd said:

THURSDAY NIGHT is a webinar that the Cadets office is running. Feel free to attend. More info in the link below. 

https://yea.org/cadets/schedule

And if any of you are close to Northern NJ on April 19th, please come to our wine and food event, meet more alumni, Denise, and myself. You can hear more of what is going on there also.... and have some great wine and food too!

noticing a trend of more and more events in NJ....a hint perhaps?

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14 minutes ago, exitmusic said:

You're looking at this the wrong way. YEA ran up some huge bus bills for The Cadets over the past few years. YEA also borrowed a bunch of money from banks over the past few years.

Spinning the Cadets out as its own entity does not absolve the new Cadets entity of its liability to pay those debts, to the extent that the new Cadets entity is a "successor" of YEA, which under the law it certainly is.

You don't just get to abandon debt by moving a business unit out the back door. If that worked, the law of obligations would not exist.

OK!  But, no, you've got it wrong.

You said it: "YEA ran up some huge bus bills..."  Yes, they did.  Cadets' didn't.  Now that Cadets are gone, YEA! still is obligated for any debts.

What revenue does Cadets bring to YEA! to help them pay these debts?  Answer: none.  What assets did Cadets take with them that can be "clawed back" in a reorganization?  Answer: none.

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