Cadets 2020

[GUARDLING]

7 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said:

What DOES a coordinator do? I don't know much about it. 

Well just depends on the program. Some will just gather the troops ( staff ) and make sure all is going as planned . Some are very involved, some on occasion . Sometimes it's just a name on a list with very little input. 

[Tim K]

10 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

If they made promises that they failed to keep, that is bad business - just plain bad.  No argument there.

Where we diverge is over the idea of suing a corps for late payment.  If your pay from a few weeks as 3rd baritone tech is that urgently needed, you really should be looking for work in an industry with steady revenue.

I was that 3rd baritone tech once, not in drum corps, but the equivalent. 

I accepted a job at a summer program that was educational in the morning and a camp in the afternoon. It had a goal of helping 5-8th graders improve their reading and math skills and keep them occupied during the day. I was supposed to be paid at the end of the summer, but funding fell through. I was probably the same age at the time as the techs would be today and I had student loans and other bills to pay. Looking back almost 30 years later, I would not trade that experience, but at the time it was a huge hardship. When you’re young and just starting out, every penny counts. For those who want to be of assistance like the 3rd baritone tech who took a low paying position but still expected to be paid, the proper response is “Thank-you,” not “shut up and get a better paying job.”

Now to bring it back to drum corps, that job did have a perk. Drum corps who came to the Boston area often were housed at B.C. High or U Mass Boston. So if you marched from 1987-1992 and stayed at either facility, I probably saw you rehearse.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

This worked it's way into the other Cadets thread but I thought I would re post it here.

People are acting like it's something new in the activity. Maybe lets talk about corps ( some ) who NEVER paid people who should have been. Corps that made promises only to make some lame excuses why it never happened, Some of the same corps who ( because of some fortune only in the past several years NOW think they are the play book for how to do things when only a few years ago were doing the same thing.

Is it right? Of course not. Should Cadets pony up to their commitment? YES but lets not jump on the Cadets as if many of peoples favorites have been guilty of the exact same thing.

When you have been around long enough IN the activity, actively participating, there are plenty of stories to go around .  Just sayin

CORPS DO NEED TO COMMITT TO THEIR OWN PROMISES AND PAY UP

Remember Magic? Ask those who came after bad management who did get them back to success but made promises that were never kept. Many believe had no intentions to keep promises to staff then left their mess to others to clean it up which was almost impossible.

Wrong? yes Happen often? YES.....getting better? I think so

I'm still waiting for $400 i was promised years ago, with a director revered as a saint in the activity. of course the corps is dead now but still

[Tim K]

38 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

I'm still waiting for $400 i was promised years ago, with a director revered as a saint in the activity. of course the corps is dead now but still

Well, if the director was a saint, you’re reward will be in Heaven.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Tim K

[seen-it-all]

There seems to be much agreement that:

a) this whole 'not paying staff on time' thing is not uncommon in drum corps

and b) that it's an unfortunate thing but it is what it is and it's not that big a deal as long as they follow thru and eventually pay

My question is why is that good enough anymore??

There have been so many ways in which corps have evolved their operations and financial models over the years to try and eliminate the gross mismanagement which has helped lead more corps to extinction that we care to count. One would think that paying your employees on time and for what they are contractually owed would be at or near the top of the list of ways to create a better reputation for yourself as a place where people can trust that they'll be treated right when they go to work there. And when you don't, that's a red flag to maybe think twice about what kind of operation you're getting yourself into, no matter how many championships have been previously won.

I guess what I'm saying is that the days of throwing up your hands and saying, "well that's just the way it is in drum corps" need to go away when it comes to stuff like this. And whether or not this is an excuse people are using in this particular circumstance, this whole episode doesn't make the Cadets look good, that's for sure.  Especially since it was well known before the season started that they were having cash flow problems. And in this day and age, there will soon come a point when the more often it happens, the more it could be (and should be IMO) construed as a warning sign of consistent poor budgetary planning on the part of the admin than anything else. I would like to think that no corps wants that label hung around their necks. 

So in a general sense applying to all corps, don't spend $$$ on what you can't afford. If that means one or two fewer large props on the field or 5-10 fewer staff members (out of what seems like an average of 40 or so per corps these days), then so be it. The best way to serve your members is to stay in existence, and the best way to do that is to budget smartly and pay your bills on time IMO

[GUARDLING]

10 minutes ago, seen-it-all said:

There seems to be much agreement that:

a) this whole 'not paying staff on time' thing is not uncommon in drum corps

and b) that it's an unfortunate thing but it is what it is and it's not that big a deal as long as they follow thru and eventually pay

My question is why is that good enough anymore??

There have been so many ways in which corps have evolved their operations and financial models over the years to try and eliminate the gross mismanagement which has helped lead more corps to extinction that we care to count. One would think that paying your employees on time and for what they are contractually owed would be at or near the top of the list of ways to create a better reputation for yourself as a place where people can trust that they'll be treated right when they go to work there. And when you don't, that's a red flag to maybe think twice about what kind of operation you're getting yourself into, no matter how many championships have been previously won.

I guess what I'm saying is that the days of throwing up your hands and saying, "well that's just the way it is in drum corps" need to go away when it comes to stuff like this. And whether or not this is an excuse people are using in this particular circumstance, this whole episode doesn't make the Cadets look good, that's for sure.  Especially since it was well known before the season started that they were having cash flow problems. And in this day and age, there will soon come a point when the more often it happens, the more it could be (and should be IMO) construed as a warning sign of consistent poor budgetary planning on the part of the admin than anything else. I would like to think that no corps wants that label hung around their necks. 

So in a general sense applying to all corps, don't spend $$$ on what you can't afford. If that means one or two fewer large props on the field or 5-10 fewer staff members (out of what seems like an average of 40 or so per corps these days), then so be it. The best way to serve your members is to stay in existence, and the best way to do that is to budget smartly and pay your bills on time IMO

All true and it has been a little better than it used to be BUT if you want an evolution of awareness lets also include members who also make the promise of paying and DON"T it's put many groups in our activity in debt also and put many under. 

Talent isn't worth the headache. Those of us who have been involved actively over the years know this all to well. With that a soft heart and no head also doesn't work. When the MM moves on for whatever reason they often do the same to the next group. This happens in Drum Corps, winter programs and even HS programs.

[George Dixon]

7 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Shes a coordinator,   IF it's part of her job,she will also evolve as necessary to be competitive, besides Cadets in the 90s also had some huge props that moved around. If decisions will be hers then you can bet she will do whats necessary

I was speaking euphemistically 

yes I would expect someone in the activity for 30-40 years as an instructor and coordinator to be able to adapt.

I just don’t see the guard empty-handed pushing props around for four minutes and standing still tossing - after last year it’s way old 

[George Dixon]

4 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Talent isn't worth the headache. 

Attitude and work ethic trumps “most talented” 9 times out of 10 

[cixelsyd]

The truth hurts, I guess.

Drum corps are, literally, charities.  Like it or not, this is what working for a charity is often like.  Never enough money.  People already underpaid cannot get their under-pay on time because the money simply is not there yet.  Reliance on volunteerism is so high, the employees themselves often donate back to their employer in unpaid overtime, forfeiting part of their wages, or chipping in cash in times of particular need.  And nearly all of those acts occur because people are that dedicated to the mission of the charity.  That is the culture we live in.

For the third time, I do not condone breaking promises/contracts.  But I am not going to pretend it never happens.  And there is no reason to expect it will never happen again, somewhere.

18 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

A lot of stuff brought up in this thread is...yeah, whatever.  But to brush off not paying someone because they were not actually an employee.....they were a contractor...as if that matters?  What, you don’t have to pay a contractor?  Was that the point?  Hey, if other drum corps are doing this too, as I read here, who are they?  Call them out too!  They should be called out. So who are they?  Maybe these people agreed to or have no problem with a “delayed payment schedule.”  That would be the best situation. These would be the “saint” employees errr contractors. 

I am not "brushing it off" - only pointing things out to those who act as if the Cadets of August 2019 are the ONLY CORPS EVER to fail to pay staff promptly.

15 hours ago, FTNK said:

This is a real ###### take. Employees are not volunteers

Not being on 2019 Cadets staff, I would not know what kind of working agreements they had with the wide assortment of design staff, caption heads, techs or supplemental supporters, much less how many of them were paid vs. volunteer, what expectations were regarding pay, and whether those expectations were conveyed in writing, verbal agreement, or unwise assumptions.  Some such positions are fee-for-service, while others consider food and housing as per diem compensation and provide little else in actual "pay".  I do not know all these details - do you?

9 hours ago, Tim K said:

I was that 3rd baritone tech once, not in drum corps, but the equivalent. 

I accepted a job at a summer program that was educational in the morning and a camp in the afternoon. It had a goal of helping 5-8th graders improve their reading and math skills and keep them occupied during the day. I was supposed to be paid at the end of the summer, but funding fell through. I was probably the same age at the time as the techs would be today and I had student loans and other bills to pay. Looking back almost 30 years later, I would not trade that experience, but at the time it was a huge hardship. When you’re young and just starting out, every penny counts. For those who want to be of assistance like the 3rd baritone tech who took a low paying position but still expected to be paid, the proper response is “Thank-you,” not “shut up and get a better paying job.”

If it was not clear enough from prior posts, then I will use this opportunity to express my gratitude for everyone who contributes to this activity in any way.  Thank you all!

That said, I still stand by my advice that if you literally cannot afford to serve this activity, please take care of your own/family needs first.  Priorities.

Edited September 27, 2019 by cixelsyd

[fsthnds]

15 hours ago, MikeD said:

Which is what the YEA email stated from the YEA admin to the staff members. They did NOT try and blow off the staff....they acknowledged that they owe them $$$.

Is it a good thing to have those cash flow issues? No, but the new YEA team was upfront with their staff members. IMO this should be seen as a positive for the team, not a negstive to roast them over the coals.

I am hearing that US Bands staff and judges are being told that they will "NOT" be paid until the season is over in Nov. Seems like the Cadets tech has a lot of company with him while waiting for his money!