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Field Judge Rule Discussion One Season In

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On 8/12/2019 at 8:59 PM, BigW said:

Heavily loaded question, then why are they still there? 

commentary is outstanding

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4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

commentary is outstanding

Wow. Which is Primo along with numbers management. So, why can't they get the person to be more careful? I have feeling that's simplistic. From everything I know and observe, one has to basically learn a drill for that corps and how to move and where and when. There are very few hard and fast rules for safe places when drill gets subtle and unpredictable. '

If this cat is that solid, put them in the box and have them do the box captions. That way everyone gets strong, helpful commentary and doesn't run the risk of getting clouted. Am I making too much sense? :innocent:

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:10 PM, garfield said:

This is a mere safety zone for judges who don't have Prosperie's experience.  It wasn't meant to be hard and fast.  The hand-wringing about him "violating" his space is completely misplaced.  Prosperie is perfectly comfy judging around an entire field.  A newer judge (which DCI is dying for) can stay close to the sideline and not risk himself or the MMs.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I will start my $.02 with I found the programming to mostly bring the battery down front so the judge can see.  That is great for drum guys/gals like me but it also does, in fact, limit design creativity when it's required.

 

it also helps a weaker line who can focus their rehearsal time on the parts when they are upfront and hide the dirt when they are farther backfield

 

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4 hours ago, bluecoats88 said:

it also helps a weaker line who can focus their rehearsal time on the parts when they are upfront and hide the dirt when they are farther backfield

 

Yup, I touched on this in the original post 

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On 8/12/2019 at 10:14 PM, BigW said:

I think the point is well taken. Given my background at UPS, some involving work on the safety committee... there's a goal there of x lost time accidents per hours worked. They would like  it to be zero... unfortunately, I think the insurance company and the company set a number for 'acceptable losses' and given the body of inexperience and sometimes cavalier attitudes of the new employees and the wearing out of the older experienced people where parts of us just break and wear out... it's not easy regardless of the training, and it's fairly thorough. I don't think DCI, the corps, their Adjudicators, or their insurers would think there would be any acceptable loss number here above zero. I would find that more than a bit disturbing if they did.

 

I would believe at this point that any adjudicator worth their salt should also be assessing risk on-field and if there is any, it would be best to back off and position one's self conservatively. No one wants to hurt anyone on the field. That I know is a given. 

Watch the hi cams of percussion vs VP/BR judges when everyone was allowed on the field (do it 2x speed and muted).  The VP/BR guys understood how to get on the field without getting inside drill.  They would even move close up when safe but didn't go "inside".  If the perc guys would have used this sensible approach,  they would still be on the field.  

Instead they were inside drill ALL THE TIME, sprinting, ducking, and frequently interfering if not downright impacting performers.  (And yes collisions/path changes/interference doesn't show up on video much because most shows are never recorded).  

It would have only taken restraint to avoid being stuck up front.  They lacked it.

On the flip side,  FE's are getting actual reads now.  In the past the only FE read time was when the drum judge thought the battery was tacit.  Even then the judge was so winded recovering from his sprint back to the front sideline that he could hear much over his own recovery breathing.   

Anyway we are where we are.

</soapbox>

Edited by karuna

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4 hours ago, karuna said:

Watch the hi cams of percussion vs VP/BR judges when everyone was allowed on the field (do it 2x speed and muted).  The VP/BR guys understood how to get on the field without getting inside drill.  They would even move close up when safe but didn't go "inside".  If the perc guys would have used this sensible approach,  they would still be on the field.  

Instead they were inside drill ALL THE TIME, sprinting, ducking, and frequently interfering if not downright impacting performers.  (And yes collisions/path changes/interference doesn't show up on video much because most shows are never recorded).  

It would have only taken restraint to avoid being stuck up front.  They lacked it.

On the flip side,  FE's are getting actual reads now.  In the past the only FE read time was when the drum judge thought the battery was tacit.  Even then the judge was so winded recovering from his sprint back to the front sideline that he could hear much over his own recovery breathing.   

Anyway we are where we are.

</soapbox>

trying to hear a battery without getting inside with brass in your face wasn't workable. and the good ones knew how to do it with few if any issues. And actually if you looked...FE's got the same time they did before because the judges were pacing the sideline trying to get a read on the battery

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9 hours ago, karuna said:

On the flip side,  FE's are getting actual reads now.

Given that they're now taking over a much greater percentage of the Musical load and Meat (Which is leading to many complaining the brass plays a lot less now proportionally in a show), maybe it's time that happens. 

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While the OP did not restrict the assessment of the rule, the percussion folks have drummed the thread that it primarily talks about following the battery or baby-sitting the pit. As difficult as the percussion judge may find a restriction to his real estate, it is the field judges who also suffer, sometimes more, as the new protocols restrict them from viewing the corps from the sidelines or backfield as BOA and other mb circuits allow the judges to roam.  Any visual designer of any experience knows that forms are designed to mask errors to the front. In the current protocol, the judge is never allowed to sample or assess any horizontal plane or even most obliques but from the front. So how true are the numbers given corresponding with reality?

Through the awesome generosity of several friends and two of the three finalist corps with whom I have had some past affiliations in various ways, I was able to be at Championships to my surprise and to enjoy the shows with one night above on side one, prelims exactly on the 50 in the 400 level, and Finals on the 500 level. Viewing each corps from these different perspectives, much like any judge BITD or any excellent drill writer/instructor would do revealed what corps (plural) could actually march and which favor "staging' and park and bark because they couldn't. One would think the props were there to hide the corps from the judges.

At least allow the field visual judge the chance to roam the sidelines and assess from all angles (front, sides, and back.)

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On 8/13/2019 at 6:17 AM, karuna said:

Red herring.  Props have nothing to do with judges. FWIW I agree props are ridiculous. 

If both props and judges cause injuries to MM, but only judges were quarantined to the sidelines, then it is not about safety.

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10 minutes ago, oldsnare said:

If both props and judges cause injuries to MM, but only judges were quarantined to the sidelines, then it is not about safety.

But the members are trained and practice DAILY for hours and know where the props are located, how to interact with them down to the specific counts, foot and hand placements etc. They are not rehearsed to all of the sudden make a blind direction change at high velocity only to see some out of shape dude (or dudette) right where they are going to be in the next .00001th of a second. Your argument is invalid.....

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