Field Judge Rule Discussion One Season In

[BigW]

4 hours ago, oldsnare said:

If both props and judges cause injuries to MM, but only judges were quarantined to the sidelines, then it is not about safety.

Are there some kind of standards adhered to? Lord... the OSHA regs would be a good starter, but my guess is it would involve serious delving and proper interpretation of them to be a good guideline as to what constitutes a safe prop.

[garfield]

1 hour ago, xandandl said:

With your experience as a show sponsor (TEP, XYZ, or whatever they are called these days,) I presume there are a number here who like me would wonder on a show sponsor's liability if the Mandarins' bungee-cord holder had slipped, if the Vanguards' fire house pole had been too slippery to grasp, if the Crossmen's axe had hit a certain percussion judge??? (In full disclosure, I had a cousin who ended up becoming paralyzed when he slipped off the pole at a NYC firehouse where he was on professional staff; he died at an early age as a result. I've also done years of emergency room volunteering plus ambulance crew staffing including one major airline crash where 79 passengers died and another 80 lived. Yes, I do think the worse from having been there.)

How liable is DCI, how liable the corps, the show sponsor, the field owner or arena owner?

If Chester and Denver can have problem with props and the field surface, what will the corps lawyers say about these wacky props?

I'm just going to quote so these very pertinent issues stay at the forefront.

(This is the 3rd season since we ran Dublin.  It's body is cold in the ground and we now only have fond memories.  I met my show partner in the stands in Indy and he, for the first time, said that, while he loved doing the show, he now has a better golf game for having to not worry about planning from November to June.)

[garfield]

41 minutes ago, Spatzzz said:

My guess is that membership contracts cover for this type of liability. The fact is you can die walking down a flight of stairs...should we outlaw stairs? This argument has driven itself into the ridiculous ditch.....

Umm, sorry my friend, but your correlation is not even close.  If you die on a staircase, a sharp attorney will surely make a case that's expensive at least, and potentially life-changing at worst.

Are MM contracts so inclusive that they cover the construction of props from which kids can fall 10 or 12 feet if not done correctly?  Really?  This ain't lining the field.

I think you misunderstand the "argument" as you call it.

 

[karuna]

It's still a red herring.

"Let's talk about judges and safety."

"NO WAY.  PROPS ARE FAR MORE DANGEROUS."

You're simply trying to distract discussion.  

As for props, I agree some are unsafe.  But they have nothing to do with judges.

_{BUT...maybe you're on to something.  Maybe some judges ARE props!}  

Yeah that's the ticket!   

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, Spatzzz said:

My guess is that membership contracts cover for this type of liability. The fact is you can die walking down a flight of stairs...should we outlaw stairs? This argument has driven itself into the ridiculous ditch.....

And this part of the contract says you can’t sue the corps for getting hurt because of a prop. Even if the prop was of half butted design or slapped together quick for a short practice session. /sarcasm 

Just like the buses, food, staff, etc members go in with assumption that things are safe. Guess contracts should cover those hazards also even if none of them should exist

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

8 hours ago, Spatzzz said:

Two BK performers went down in prelims this year...must have been that invisible tarp they had that tripped them up. Your point makes zero sense other than to attempt to change the subject.

oh so a judge made them go down

 

oh, no they didn't. your red herring back at ya

[karuna]

56 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

oh so a judge made them go down

 

oh, no they didn't. your red herring back at ya

Performers practice all season with their props.  Are you telling me judges are going to be at every rehearsal from ST on?   Yeah no. 

 

I get it.  You want to link them. But they’re two separate things.  One is part of the performance.  The other is adjudication.  Completely separate processes. 

[Spatzzz]

9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

oh so a judge made them go down

 

oh, no they didn't. your red herring back at ya

You were the one that was attempting to make this about props. I clearly stated that props are a known entity to the performers and are not as dangerous as some of you are making them out to be. I also provided an example of performers going down without any interference from props to show that there is inherent danger in the activity regardless of props or not. There is no need to add the additional unknown element of a judge wandering around the field which the performers can't prepare for when I think this year proved that the corps can be fairly adjudicated without people running in and out of the middle of the field.

As I said I'm sure there will be some slight adjustments to the rule but I think you have seen the last of the percussion judges running around like mad-people to avoid getting killed. And yes some of the worry was how it impacted the visual and rightfully so. EVERY percussion judge became a distraction on the field although some more than others. 

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, Spatzzz said:

You were the one that was attempting to make this about props. I clearly stated that props are a known entity to the performers and are not as dangerous as some of you are making them out to be. I also provided an example of performers going down without any interference from props to show that there is inherent danger in the activity regardless of props or not. There is no need to add the additional unknown element of a judge wandering around the field which the performers can't prepare for when I think this year proved that the corps can be fairly adjudicated without people running in and out of the middle of the field.

As I said I'm sure there will be some slight adjustments to the rule but I think you have seen the last of the percussion judges running around like mad-people to avoid getting killed. And yes some of the worry was how it impacted the visual and rightfully so. EVERY percussion judge became a distraction on the field although some more than others. 

anything is a danger, and most everything is grossly exaggerated as such...be it props, judges on the field, Torch on a bad hair day, you name it. it all boils down to one person with no situational awareness on the biggest of stages freaking people out. Listening to the field percussion recording of Cadets, being stuck on the sideline means you miss a lot of stuff.