C.Holland Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Maybe you should ask instead of assuming wrong... Actually good attendance for a drum corps show. But when a rock concert seats people on the field along with the stands we’re talking about 25K warm bodies. And Beyoncé, Springsteen, Billy Joel, U2, etc pay a helluva lot more for stadium rental. Big part of the problem is Herco refuses to sign contracts for stadium rental. Last Hershey corps show was scheduled but then Herco got a better deal with Destinys Child and killed the corps show. It went to court but since there wasn’t a signed contract Herco won the suit against them. So why try to hold a show and hold your breath that you will not lose the site? IMO this killed any chance for a future corps show than anything else. Weird thinking that the DCA Finals hosted at Hershey could have been killed if someone else came up with a better offer. Hershey Stadium has hosted Big 33 high school football game for decades. Possibly biggest publicity of any event held there as between PA and another states best HS players. Few years back one of the Big 33 heads said they can’t get Herco to sign a contract either. I fully understand how stadiums work. This is the business I work in. The point is money. it always is. And with concerts and how they are sponsors, the money is a large pile and guaranteed. if they make loads of money from a concert, and you want to use the stadium, you need to match what they would make by moving the concert. Yes it is that simple. What's not simple is drum corps, band, competitive eating...whatever, matching that dollar amount and making the event a money generator to which the stadium says "yes, come have your event here". Those who handle tour booking (live nation, main stage... etc) come up with their routes, and then look at all cities presentation agreements along that route, and apply that to their budget. Lets look at the Zac Brown band's Owl tour (coming to Hershey). Pre-funded by Demerbox and distributed through Live Nation. (meaning stadium money is guaranteed) The tour sponsor has fronted $$$ for the tour fees, gear, stadiums, staffing, ticketing, promo...etc etc etc. They've given Zac Brown Band + opening acts their salary for the time of the tour. Which they then recoup via sales of tix & merch hoping to exceed what they paid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, C.Holland said: I fully understand how stadiums work. This is the business I work in. The point is money. it always is. And with concerts and how they are sponsors, the money is a large pile and guaranteed. if they make loads of money from a concert, and you want to use the stadium, you need to match what they would make by moving the concert. Yes it is that simple. What's not simple is drum corps, band, competitive eating...whatever, matching that dollar amount and making the event a money generator to which the stadium says "yes, come have your event here". Those who handle tour booking (live nation, main stage... etc) come up with their routes, and then look at all cities presentation agreements along that route, and apply that to their budget. Lets look at the Zac Brown band's Owl tour (coming to Hershey). Pre-funded by Demerbox and distributed through Live Nation. (meaning stadium money is guaranteed) The tour sponsor has fronted $$$ for the tour fees, gear, stadiums, staffing, ticketing, promo...etc etc etc. They've given Zac Brown Band + opening acts their salary for the time of the tour. Which they then recoup via sales of tix & merch hoping to exceed what they paid out. Which does not touch on the subject of stadium owners refusing to sign contracts “just in case” they get a better offer. So why subject yourself to a crap shoot knowing DC money won’t match Springsteen, etc. From an earlier post it sounded like it was the Hershey sponsors fault for the show being cancelled. Outside of DCI week (maybe) what corps show could match the money being brought in by a major music act. Also in this case Herco knows they have the best (dang near only) stadium in the area for large crowds. And don’t understand “if you want to use the stadium... move the concert”. If you want that stadium... go to another stadium? Edited August 28, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, C.Holland said: I fully understand how stadiums work. This is the business I work in. The point is money. it always is. And with concerts and how they are sponsors, the money is a large pile and guaranteed. if they make loads of money from a concert, and you want to use the stadium, you need to match what they would make by moving the concert. Yes it is that simple. What's not simple is drum corps, band, competitive eating...whatever, matching that dollar amount and making the event a money generator to which the stadium says "yes, come have your event here". Have a family member who worked for Live Nation for a while and is now freelancing in the event management field... you are spot on about how it works. But the bolded part.... I'm guessing at a number of venues, drum corps... DCA in particular... has no chance, as things stand now. LOL And without a signed contract... like in the Herco case... even less of a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Which does not touch on the subject of stadium owners refusing to sign contracts “just in case” they get a better offer. So why subject yourself to a crap shoot knowing DC money won’t match Springsteen, etc. Also in this case Herco knows they have the best stadium in the area for large crowds. And don’t understand “if you want to use the stadium... move the concert”. If you want that stadium... go to another stadium? Doesn't need to. Stadium operators don't need to hold out "just in case". The concert contracts for 2020 summer are already being booked. Ozzy is already guaranteed a date. Elton John, Dixie Chicks, and the Avett Brothers' dates are already in the pipeline. The state football contracts are already signed and deposits are put down. Yes, all of these things can be moved for a cost. Drum corps doesn't have the money to do that. Very few entities have the money to do that, but it is possible. In entertainment, anything is possible as long as you can afford it. The first question someone asks when you bring a project to the table in entertainment is "what is your budget?". But the short answer, Live Nation, AEG... and all the other tour producers are finalizing their 2020 venues now, and they have holds on dates for 2021 and in some cases... even 2022 if the scale of the show is large enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, C.Holland said: Doesn't need to. Stadium operators don't need to hold out "just in case". The concert contracts for 2020 summer are already being booked. Ozzy is already guaranteed a date. Elton John, Dixie Chicks, and the Avett Brothers' dates are already in the pipeline. The state football contracts are already signed and deposits are put down. Yes, all of these things can be moved for a cost. Drum corps doesn't have the money to do that. Very few entities have the money to do that, but it is possible. In entertainment, anything is possible as long as you can afford it. The first question someone asks when you bring a project to the table in entertainment is "what is your budget?". But the short answer, Live Nation, AEG... and all the other tour producers are finalizing their 2020 venues now, and they have holds on dates for 2021 and in some cases... even 2022 if the scale of the show is large enough. Jeff can probably correct me if I get the details wrong but Destinys Child concert was announced in the Spring just a few months before the corps show. IIRC Destiny’s Child has just reunited for some reason, then Beyoncé went back to a solo act end of that year. Manager probably scouted around for venues with open dates and Herco said sure... we have nothing signed for that date... just googled to verify and it was 2006 short lived DC reunion that clipped the show Edited August 28, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Krackin' Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) Interesting discussion, even without a lot of name calling and hurt feelings. Still, I'll join in... ; ) I believe DCA will be around in 5 years, There are still many strong, stable corps as Members. That's what DCA is. The Member corps. They vote on the rules. They choose leadership. They decide where Championships are held. I've been to several annual meetings and rules congresses. It's an all volunteer group, for the most part, and they have done a pretty good job of sustaining this activity for over 50 years. While I have been out of the loop for awhile, I remember that while there was always discussion about how to move forward, I think most of the people involved also recognized the fact that DCA is largely an insider activity. A lot of people talk about growing the base and appealing to more marching band kids, but to be honest, I think that has to happen within the corps themselves. They are going to be better able to reach out in a positive way to marching bands within a few hours of them, and build the participation level from within their own programs. More members equals more spectators at shows, because let's be honest, the vast majority of people in the audience are family and friends of the performers on the field. People that do not have any connection to DCA, other than they are or were in high school band just aren't going to buy very many tickets. As s former show sponsor, I can say that the model for growing new shows could be further developed. At our show, we were fortunate enough to have a very generous business sponsor that allowed us to be profitable from year one. Without that support, our shows would have barely broken even, after many many hours of hard work by a lot of people. I have always thought the corps could do more to help build the audiences at the shows that they go to. They could fill their empty bus seats with their own family and friends. As a show sponsor, I would have been more than willing to offer a fair split on pre-sold tickets with the corps that were in the show. Bigger crowds lead to even bigger ones the next year, if one is running their show well. Edited August 28, 2019 by Mick Krackin' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Thinking of the 2006 Hershey mess... if stadium owners would not honor a date in the “verbal agreement “ why expect them to honor anything else... brrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 We have to consider almost everything about DCA, and management of each individual corps, is pretty much a "kitchen table" operation. I think all the corps administrators worry most about keeping their own corps running for another year. There is very little margin to increase travel significantly. I can't imagine how Atlanta CV manages to visit the Northeast 2 times a year. There's also the problem of finding people to fill performance spots in the corps. The difficulty in finding performers should become less a problem by ending the DCA season 1-2 weeks earlier than Labor Day. So, starting a little earlier should be looked at, too! Initially, I would suggest DCA re-work the seasonal schedule first. This could involve determining an overall champion without requiring every corps to be in the same location at one time. I expect DCA to be around in 5 years. Probably, without the need for a Prelims event. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Jeff can probably correct me if I get the details wrong but Destinys Child concert was announced in the Spring just a few months before the corps show. IIRC Destiny’s Child has just reunited for some reason, then Beyoncé went back to a solo act end of that year. Manager probably scouted around for venues with open dates and Herco said sure... we have nothing signed for that date... just googled to verify and it was 2006 short lived DC reunion that clipped the show announced for sale, and behind the scenes planning are two VERY different timelines. i work in production. i know what's showing up a year, two, or more before its announced for sale. my job is to advance labor and equipment, estimating costs and time, while conforming to all legislation, as well as booking agreements between cities. Edited August 28, 2019 by C.Holland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, C.Holland said: announced for sale, and behind the scenes planning are two VERY different timelines. i work in production. i know what's showing up a year, two, or more before its announced for sale. my job is to advance labor and equipment, estimating costs and time, while conforming to all legislation, as well as booking agreements between cities. Well if the stadium owners knew well in advance there was a conflict why did they wait to tell the corps sponsors they couldn’t have the stadium? Answer was Herco didn’t know until just a few months ahead of time. From what I read the reunion was a surprise to everyone and not something planned year ahead. Again this was after Destinys Child broke up and only reunited for special events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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