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It is time for the business of the activity to evolve


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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

 

And if in June, seven other corps are ahead?  Ask them again, and you will get a different answer.

So what does this prove, exactly?  The only thing this proves is what I just said earlier... the the so-called "market value" of a drum corps is the product of their ranking in contests.  Thanks for corroborating that!

Tell you what. We can both bet in which six corps will be ahead right now. My bet:

BD

Coats

Crown

SCV

Cavaliers

Boston

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As I have said many many times, the very basis of DCI competition is a self fulfilling prophecy. There are good reasons why, right now, we can all pretty much predict the top six for that next three years. DCI is the direct product of the desires of the most historically successful corps. There is absolutely no desire or impetus to make this a level playing field.

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11 hours ago, Slingerland said:

The last time the top 6 or 7 corps from the previous season were not also the top 6 or 7 corps in the season following was.....40 years ago.

Your "if" is based on something that simply doesn't happen. Those corps with greatest track records of success are bigger draws for audiences than those who are not near the top.  But hey, I suggest you take your theory and use it to book a 4000 seat stadium and book no corps who placed higher than 13 the previous season, and see how you do. 

 

11 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

Tell you what. We can both bet in which six corps will be ahead right now. My bet:

BD

Coats

Crown

SCV

Cavaliers

Boston

Fussing over which DCI contests are bigger draws than others only further reinforces my point.  It is all built on the context of DCI contests.  That "market value", and even your posts here, would not exist without the DCI competitive context.

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2 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

 

Fussing over which DCI contests are bigger draws than others only further reinforces my point.  It is all built on the context of DCI contests.  That "market value", and even your posts here, would not exist without the DCI competitive context.

DCI indeed may not need to exist without competition. That said, please do us a favor and simply understand that DCI competition is designed and dictated by the member corps! DCI isnt an independent organization that bears some standard over its members. It’s designed to appear to be a level playing field that is in NO WAY such.

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1 minute ago, MikeRapp said:

DCI indeed may not need to exist without competition. That said, please do us a favor and simply understand that DCI competition is designed and dictated by the member corps! DCI isnt an independent organization that bears some standard over its members. It’s designed to appear to be a level playing field that is in NO WAY such.

No one said otherwise.  

Now, do us a favor and understand that:

- there are way more than 7 DCI member corps (always have been)

- there are even more corps in the DCI competitive context and tour (always have been)

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34 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

No one said otherwise.  

Now, do us a favor and understand that:

- there are way more than 7 DCI member corps (always have been)

- there are even more corps in the DCI competitive context and tour (always have been)

Whether you want to admit it or not, 90% of the tickets sold on tour are to see the top seven corps. Historically it is undeniable that the top seven hardly ever changes due to the designed nature of DCI. So while I personally might pay to see Open class tour, or shows with no top seven corps, 90% of America won’t.

If you refuse to believe this that is your choice. But you are dreaming.

Let me put this another way. If DCI World class was seven corps, only seven—the top seven from 2019–attendance would be 90% what 2019 was.

Edited by MikeRapp
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21 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Please, not this crap again.

None of these individual corps have a substantiated "market value".  No one would know or care who the Blue Devils are (if they still existed), or any other DCI corps, without DCI.  What you mistakely call "market value" is almost entirely built from performances and competitive achievements that would never have occurred had DCI not created/maintained the league, provided the venues, and drawn this many corps together for contests of their scale, from which the better corps built their resumes.

I respectfully disagree with you here. Plenty of people know who the Blue Devils are, and many other corps. I see what you are trying to say about DCI, but DCI was started by the corps...not the other way around. If the Blue Devils, Santa Clara Vanguard, Cadets, Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Boston Crusaders, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, Carolina Crown, and others were to form a new circuit, I am quite confident that circuit would become popular. I'm not saying DCI would disappear. It just depends on how many corps left.

I might think of this differently from others, but I feel the individual drum corps are the brand names that keep the popularity up, not DCI. Many of the corps in competition today built their brand before DCI even began, Like Holy Name/Garfield Cadets, Cavaliers, Madison Scouts, Troopers. The 1970 Troopers are considered legendary, even among the music education community of band directors. Another case-in-point to be made here is that even though Madison has had some internal issues and have struggled competitively, they are still a MAJOR brand name among DCI fans. It's a brand they have built over decades.

Corps like BD and SCV built their brand in the early DCI period of the 70s. Same with corps like 27th Lancers and Bridgemen. The Bluecoats have been around since the early 70s, but did not really build their brand until 87/88. Since then, Bloo and Crown have become two of the more popular corps out there, especially from 2005 on. 

To your initial point (that these corps have no substantial market value) I would say every corps has some market value. Now, how substantial it is depends on your definition. If you saw all thing the Blue Devils organization does locally year around, then you'd realize they have substantial value to their community and to the drum corps universe. They are a highly revered corps all over the world. That didn't happen because of DCI. It happens because of their quality and the shows they produce. The Garfield Cadets (CBC, The Cadets) developed a brand and a popularity that was phenomenal up and down the Eastern seaboard, through the Midwest, and world wide as well. Until recent troubles, The Cadets/YEA were able to build one of the largest H.S. marching band competition circuits in the country. That doesn't happen because you have no brand or market value. 

Edited by jwillis35
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DCI has literally no market presence or power that isn’t lended to them by its most popular corps. Remove the top seven corps and ticket sales go to zero, sponsorships go to zero, endorsements go to zero, Flo disappears.

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56 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I respectfully disagree with you here. Plenty of people know who the Blue Devils are, and many other corps.

And who are they?  They are the 19 time DCI champion, perennial top 5 DCI corps, finalist at DCI since 1974.  DCI this, DCI that.  Their resume is built entirely on DCI.

Quote

I see what you are trying to say about DCI, but DCI was started by the corps...not the other way around.

Proving that even they knew they needed the context of a competitive league to succeed.

Quote

If the Blue Devils, Santa Clara Vanguard, Cadets, Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Boston Crusaders, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, Carolina Crown, and others were to form a new circuit, I am quite confident that circuit would become popular.

As long as they included enough others, that would be possible.  

Quote

I might think of this differently from others, but I feel the individual drum corps are the brand names that keep the popularity up, not DCI. Many of the corps in competition today built their brand before DCI even began, Like Holy Name/Garfield Cadets, Cavaliers, Madison Scouts, Troopers. The 1970 Troopers are considered legendary, even among the music education community of band directors. Another case-in-point to be made here is that even though Madison has had some internal issues and have struggled competitively, they are still a MAJOR brand name among DCI fans. It's a brand they have built over decades.

Corps like BD and SCV built their brand in the early DCI period of the 70s. Same with corps like 27th Lancers and Bridgemen. The Bluecoats have been around since the early 70s, but did not really build their brand until 87/88. Since then, Bloo and Crown have become two of the more popular corps out there, especially from 2005 on. 

To your initial point (that these corps have no substantial market value) I would say every corps has some market value. Now, how substantial it is depends on your definition. If you saw all thing the Blue Devils organization does locally year around, then you'd realize they have substantial value to their community and to the drum corps universe. They are a highly revered corps all over the world. That didn't happen because of DCI. It happens because of their quality and the shows they produce. The Garfield Cadets (CBC, The Cadets) developed a brand and a popularity that was phenomenal up and down the Eastern seaboard, through the Midwest, and world wide as well. Until recent troubles, The Cadets/YEA were able to build one of the largest H.S. marching band competition circuits in the country. That doesn't happen because you have no brand or market value. 

None of those individual corps "brands" matter enough to be a draw without other corps involved.  It amazes me no end to see person after person come on here and blather on about how if you took the top X DCI corps, they would draw a crowd... as if that proves DCI does not matter?  :doh:

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