LabMaster Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, cybersnyder said: SRedskins dropped their stadium seating capacity to avoid blackouts. The blackout rule also went away when teams sold tickets to resellers like Stub Hub. But what this all has to do with DC revenue sharing is beyond me. DCI can only share what revenue DCI generates. I don’t think corps will give up souvie sales to a central DCI managed entity. Corps would want the autonomy on that revenue generator. But sharing from ticket sales could be worked out to extend to many touring corps to help defray touring costs ( for corps with little revenue access).As a corps improves, the share is modified. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, MikeRapp said: The rules of DCI are such that there will be almost no change in the relative placements of the members from year to year. Competitiveness is obviously important, but it is very much a product of the rules or lack there of that member organizations have agreed to. In other words, the top six or almost certain to be the top six for the next 2 to 3 years. It’s all a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Almost"? Okay then, you almost had a point. Those of us who have followed the activity for decades look at modern DCI competition as stagnant in comparison to yesteryear (and audiences as smaller than yesteryear, no coincidence). But placements do still change, not just from year to year, but from day to day. And people care about that. Whether blue/blue one-and-two, Pacific Crest vaulting into 14th, or who would be crowned/asterisked in open-class, these battles for placements are a big part of why there is interest. Quote Competition is obviously at the heart of the tour itself. Without that, it would not be as compelling. Common ground. Quote That said, the competition would exist whether there are seven or 17 or 37 members. Ticket draw would correspond to the quality of what is put on the field, not just that there is a competition. If it were that simple, then why did the 1933 American Legion final draw 40,000 fans? Was "the quality of what was put on the field" nearly twice as good as what we have now? Quote More people will come to a major league baseball game then a AAA game, AA game, single-A, or rookie league. It’s the same rules of competition, but the quality of the product is entirely different. Of course. Baseball is a organized hierarchy of cooperative leagues. Which one is the best is established in advance. Quote If you doubt that the quality of the product itself matters, then you are old enough to remember when the NFL tried to play games with replacement players. That didn’t last very long. That was an entirely different situation, a strike by the union representing all NFL players, called while the season was in progress. The analogous drum corps scenario would be if all the kids in DCI corps were somehow unionized, and a strike was called in early July, with corps responding by recruiting replacements and trying to field shows within a week. I would expect attendance to drop in either case, at least partly from people who simply side with the union in their dispute. By the way, who said the quality of the product does not matter? I do not dispute that, given the choice, people will prefer to see the best. We all know this. So does DCI. They have known this from their inception. "Showcasing the top corps" was written into their mission statement BITD. This is what leagues do. That is why we see bloated playoff structures, wildcards, prelim/final contests, and TOC shows. But none of these other leagues believe the top seven six teams would be better off seceding into a private club. (And why is it six corps now? If top corps are so immutable, why did you have to change the number from 7 to 6 to try and make your case?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Slingerland said: Well, tell ya what, when presto chango the 9th through 18th place corps next year are opening the year kicking tail and taking names from the existing top 6 or 7 corps, your framing will have some credence. Until then, those of us here on planet Earth know that the top six corps mid point through next season will likely be most or all of the current top six. Who are you arguing with, yourself? I never predicted that the entire 9-18 would defeat the entire 1-6-or-7 the very next time they meet. Change is slow in a subjectively judged activity... but placements will change. Even you know this, judging by the underlined hedging in your forecast above. And when rank changes, so does "market value". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: And when rank changes, so does "market value". In other words, you're acknowledging that certain corps have more market value than others and that placement is a determining factor, which is exactly the opposite of your earliest opinion on the matter. So if some corps have more market value than others, and yet they still agree to perform for fees that are below their market value, they are, in point of fact, subsidizing the other corps and DCI by agreeing to perform for less than their value. Glad we agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersnyder Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, LabMaster said: The blackout rule also went away when teams sold tickets to resellers like Stub Hub. But what this all has to do with DC revenue sharing is beyond me. DCI can only share what revenue DCI generates. I don’t think corps will give up souvie sales to a central DCI managed entity. Corps would want the autonomy on that revenue generator. But sharing from ticket sales could be worked out to extend to many touring corps to help defray touring costs ( for corps with little revenue access).As a corps improves, the share is modified. just a thought. Not sure how you ever get the "big boys" to vote for less money for themselves. Corps need to improve from within. Carolina Crown was a less than stellar corps at one time, but they improved themselves incrementally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Who are you arguing with, yourself? I never predicted that the entire 9-18 would defeat the entire 1-6-or-7 the very next time they meet. Change is slow in a subjectively judged activity... but placements will change. Even you know this, judging by the underlined hedging in your forecast above. And when rank changes, so does "market value". Placements change so little that you can hardly even call it change. I would be willing to bet my house and all It’s contents that no corps outside the 2019 top six will medal in 2020. I might even say top five. Bottom line is, at the end of the day, both the corps and DCI need each other—but DCI needs the corps more than the opposite. And if you removed the top six from the 2020 tour, attendance would plummet and likely never return no matter how good the “competition” was. Edited August 30, 2019 by MikeRapp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersnyder Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, MikeRapp said: Placements change so little that you can hardly even call it change. I would be willing to bet my house and all It’s contents that no corps outside the 2019 top six will medal in 2020. I might even say top five. Bottom line is, at the end of the day, both the corps and DCI need each other—but DCI needs the corps more than the opposite. And if you removed the top six from the 2020 tour, attendance would plummet and likely never return no matter how good the “competition” was. This is certainly true when I look at an upcoming show. I want to know who is performing and that really means who are the last 2-3 corps on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, cybersnyder said: This is certainly true when I look at an upcoming show. I want to know who is performing and that really means who are the last 2-3 corps on the field. You are not everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersnyder Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, MikeRapp said: You are not everyone. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, MikeRapp said: Major league baseball is a franchise, which has rules that are enforceable to ensure a level playing field for all members. It’s not the same as drum Corps, where the organization is a trade organization entirely funded at the will I of the members. The rules of DCI are such that there will be almost no change in the relative placements of the members from year to year. Competitiveness is obviously important, but it is very much a product of the rules or lack there of that member organizations have agreed to. In other words, the top six or almost certain to be the top six for the next 2 to 3 years. It’s all a self-fulfilling prophecy. BRASSO is either smiling or thinking "I've been posting similar opinions for the past ##### years." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.