SuperSaderFan

It is time for the business of the activity to evolve

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5 minutes ago, garfield said:

"Drop out completely"?  Hmmm, seems hard to believe.

 

At least as far as DCI is concerned. But that argument is academic, a staff "draft" will never happen.

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27 minutes ago, cybersnyder said:

Spending cap and a draft for staff? The money isn't big enough to change where staff wants to go, so that would never happen. They will go where they want to go or drop out completely. Which is a bigger factor? Staff or money?

How about a spending cap and a draft for marching-members?

 

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On 8/31/2019 at 3:56 PM, ShortAndFast said:

If BD came out with a bad show next year, they would fall. If they did it a couple of years in a row, they would fall further and their staff would start eyeing greener pastures. Kids might even, gasp, go somewhere else if they wanted a shot at a ring. Don't believe me? Look at what happened to Cavies after Gaines left. That's how quickly a group that earned 11 medals in 12 years can drop!

The difference between BD and Cavaliers is money though. BD has built a large organization that keeps people around. There is more job security, and they offer many full-time jobs with benefits. You don''t just walk away from that because of one or two bad years competitively.  They had 7 years in a row from 1988 - 1993 that produced no championships, nothing higher than 3rd place (just once in 1988) and a lot of 4th place finishes. This did not hurt them at all. Certainly not from an organizational structure or finances. 

If we really want to keep drum & bugle corps alive and well in this country, we have to figure out how they can earn money. You simply cannot build a championship caliber corps from member dues alone. A corps with money to spend can hire excellent designers and teachers. That will bring in talent.  Carolina Crown became more competitive when they started making more money. Bluecoats became more competitive when they started making more money. Phantom, Madison, Cadets have suffered in this regard...although there may be other reasons for each of these corps. Frankly, while the Cadets are dealing with other issues (as we all know) it's amazing they are still a top 12 drum corps, but making money is the number one issue.  Phantom has gone through money issues. Despite that their members cleaned the snot out of that show this year and were one of the highlights for many fans.  

I don't know that we will ever see a cap on spending. Perhaps just for the production of the show I could see it, but I would love to hear the arguments for and against in a room filled with designers and admins. I do not think we will ever see a day where there is revenue sharing, other than what is already in place for videos, CDs, live performance streaming, etc. It's just so difficult to earn money for a drum corps, and each corps has a right to use that money for their benefit. 

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47 minutes ago, garfield said:

How about a spending cap and a draft for marching-members?

 

When you start paying members, sure. 

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1 hour ago, garfield said:

How about a spending cap and a draft for marching-members?

 

 This only works, and is likely only legal, if the corps are paying the kids — not the other way around. If I am a 21-year-old with years of experience, and I get drafted by a corps that finished 18th last year, I’m just not marching.

Just being honest, there’s no way I’m giving $5000 of my money to an organization that has zero chance of making finals. 

Edited by MikeRapp
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1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

 This only works, and is likely only legal, if the corps are paying the kids — not the other way around. If I am a 21-year-old with years of experience, and I get drafted by a corps that finished 18th last year, I’m just not marching.

Just being honest, there’s no way I’m giving $5000 of my money to an organization that has zero chance of making finals. 

Curious... If you have the talent to try out for a top corps and pay $5000, would you march PC, for example, if your draft came with a tuition discount of 50%?  75%?  What if you could march on Friday night for free?

By the way, what's this "legal" stuff?  These are non-profits; it's not as though some are getting rich on the backs of performers.  I'm no attorney, but "pay" is not a requisite to entice a MM to come "here" instead of going "there" in return for some consideration.

Edited by garfield

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17 minutes ago, garfield said:

Curious... If you have the talent to try out for a top corps and pay $5000, would you march PC, for example, if your draft came with a tuition discount of 50%?  75%?  What if you could march on Friday night for free?

By the way, what's this "legal" stuff?  These are non-profits; it's not as though some are getting rich on the backs of performers.  I'm no attorney, but "pay" is not a requisite to entice a MM to come "here" instead of going "there" in return for some consideration.

I can’t speak for every marching member, but if you are aging out, I suspect tuition fees are not the reason you would chose one corps over another.

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Some of the things I'm reading in this thread, if somehow enacted, makes me wonder if we would see a return and actual implementation of a G7?

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14 minutes ago, oldbandguy said:

Some of the things I'm reading in this thread, if somehow enacted, makes me wonder if we would see a return and actual implementation of a G7?

Precisely. 

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3 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

The difference between BD and Cavaliers is money though. BD has built a large organization that keeps people around. There is more job security, and they offer many full-time jobs with benefits. You don''t just walk away from that because of one or two bad years competitively.  They had 7 years in a row from 1988 - 1993 that produced no championships, nothing higher than 3rd place (just once in 1988) and a lot of 4th place finishes. This did not hurt them at all. Certainly not from an organizational structure or finances. 

If we really want to keep drum & bugle corps alive and well in this country, we have to figure out how they can earn money. You simply cannot build a championship caliber corps from member dues alone. A corps with money to spend can hire excellent designers and teachers. That will bring in talent.  Carolina Crown became more competitive when they started making more money. Bluecoats became more competitive when they started making more money. Phantom, Madison, Cadets have suffered in this regard...although there may be other reasons for each of these corps. Frankly, while the Cadets are dealing with other issues (as we all know) it's amazing they are still a top 12 drum corps, but making money is the number one issue.  Phantom has gone through money issues. Despite that their members cleaned the snot out of that show this year and were one of the highlights for many fans.  

I don't know that we will ever see a cap on spending. Perhaps just for the production of the show I could see it, but I would love to hear the arguments for and against in a room filled with designers and admins. I do not think we will ever see a day where there is revenue sharing, other than what is already in place for videos, CDs, live performance streaming, etc. It's just so difficult to earn money for a drum corps, and each corps has a right to use that money for their benefit. 

I don't really disagree with most of this, but I think you are overstating it to say that BD had money and the Cavies didn't circa 2011. Both were elite units that could fund their programs. The competitive fall of the Cavies was more about the loss of a critical staff member than running out of money.

But the rest of it: definitely true. Management at all corps at all competitive levels should pretty much be thinking all the time about how to grow the revenue streams that support their programs. Top-level DCI programs are already very expensive, and I'd guess that costs have grown faster than inflation over the past 5 years.

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