Sign in to follow this  
N.E. Brigand

Why would a corps ever find it "Justify"-able to use an overaged member?

Recommended Posts

On 9/12/2019 at 6:39 AM, cixelsyd said:

Today, when top corps audition hundreds of 18-21 year olds from all over the globe and pick the best among them, there is no need.  Back when no one fielded a full corps, memberships ranged from 12 to 21 in age, corps members had to be local, and few brought prior experience/established talent the day they signed up, there was a much greater temptation to keep a key performer a little longer.

Absolutely! The geographical location and current demographics of organizations are no longer local and haven’t been for years. Very few if any could field from their mailing address only. Some wouldn’t even find enough members from their own state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, waliman4444 said:

I don't know when all-age drum corps started but there was a time when senior drum corps was the BOMB and aspiring to march there was laudable

DCI organizations have very littler local membership. Has to impact recruiting for all age organizations in the same geographic area. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, waliman4444 said:

I know we're talking about overage performers illegally making it to the field of competition ...for whatever reason....But BITD when senior corps were the logical progression for mm's after ageing out the opposite happened with some senior corps, by allowing middle teens to march with men and women..talk about a growing up fast!!!..I don't know if there was a formal minimum age for senior corps but if they needed to fill a hole, age was often overlooked(particularly if you had a beard).Lol..I don't know when all-age drum corps started but there was a time when senior drum corps was the BOMB and aspiring to march there was laudable

Each Sr corps set their own rules. Usually based on if they could fill the corps without needing minors. I started at 16 so figure how badly the warm bodies were needed lol.

But for AL and VFW shows corps had to have a certain percentage of veterans in earlier years. Heard a few stories of people admitting to borrow an AL member card so they could march in State or National Championships. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Each Sr corps set their own rules. Usually based on if they could fill the corps without needing minors. I started at 16 so figure how badly the warm bodies were needed lol.

But for AL and VFW shows corps had to have a certain percentage of veterans in earlier years. Heard a few stories of people admitting to borrow an AL member card so they could march in State or National Championships. 

CYO only had juniors competing, but had specific rules about who could march, but they changed over the years. At first, you had to be Catholic and live within the parish boundaries. Non Catholics were later allowed but had to live within the boundaries and could not be more than 20% of the corps. Then the rules changed and if your parish did not have a drum corps, drill team, or band, you could join the one in the parish nearest you with permission of the pastor. The final rule was that 50% had to be from the parish but I’m not sure that was enforced since many of the corps that competed in the circuit were not church affiliated. There was also a rule you could not jump from one corps that competed in the CYO or Eastern Mass Circuits without one year of a hiatus. That was rarely enforced and by the mid 1970’s it was not enforced at all.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

My memory is foggy on this point. Do we know for sure that the documents presented to SCV staff were in fact the same ones presented to U.S. authorities? Did SCV contact authorities? Were any charges filed? Were they summarily deported?

First, remember in 1989, getting a Visa to come to the United States was very different. 

The easiest visa to obtain would have been a visitor’s visa. Without a sponsor you are allowed to travel for anywhere up to six weeks. With a sponsor, usually a relative, it could be up to six months. With a visitor’s visa it is possible the person had legitimate credentials when entering but presented false documents to SCV. 

A student visa would have required an educational institution verifying a student was enrolled, and if the person was a minor, an adult sponsor was required. If SCV qualifies as an educational institution, a student visa could have been issued but it would be unlikely that legitimate documents were used to enter the country and forged documents to were presented to SCV. The documents would have to match. 

Work visas had a variety of rules. Work could be paid or unpaid. The easiest way to obtain a work visa is to have employment settled. Work visas in the past had the most loopholes and are the visas most often violated. 

So, whether the same documents to enter the country were the same documents shown to SCV most likely depends on the visa that was granted and whether SCV was a sponsor.

If SCV was a sponsor and false documents were used to enter the country, they would be obligated to report it. If a visitor’s visa was granted, probably not. A work visa would depend on whether SCV sponsored the person. If they entered the country legally, charges were probably not filed. If they entered with false documents, unless SCV contacted authorities, they probably crossed the pond as quickly as possible. My guess is that’s what happened. If they were arrested, faced trial, and deported,  or if they left and were extradited back to the US to face charges, if there were charges, it would have been a much bigger story.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, DAvery said:

Never heard this before. Since they folded after the 74 season, would this have been the first instance of an overage member being targeted by DCI/VFW/AL?

perhaps.

I know what I posted is true as I was there when Bob Briske, Show Coordinator (and other titles) for Championships challenged them at the gate. Those who know Bob know he wasn't quiet but was 1000% for the kids over the corps staffs and admins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then there were the 1977 Bengal Lancers......  they won the DCI Class 'A' Championship on August 17.

On August 27, at the UOEC Championship,  they were found to have marched overage members during the year.

The corps director immediately pulled them out of the Garden State Championship, which was held the very next day.

DCI never did anything to punish them, despite the fact they won the DCI title.  I guess all their attention was on the Bridgemen that year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because they identify as a 21 year old?  Pretty sure this could me made a court case anymore.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading through this topic, I just know that I'm now going to have THAT dream again..... you know, the one where you are 10+ years past age out but are somehow on the field, trying to remember your show... or a variation on that theme where you're just about to leave for tour, but no one knows how old you really are.   Anyone else have those? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BD 79-82 said:

After reading through this topic, I just know that I'm now going to have THAT dream again..... you know, the one where you are 10+ years past age out but are somehow on the field, trying to remember your show... or a variation on that theme where you're just about to leave for tour, but no one knows how old you really are.   Anyone else have those? 

Kinda but All Age version is you’re asked to fill a spot in the show. You’re in uniform and in your spot to start the show... then you realize you were never taught the drill... or have even seen the corps perform it... only non problem is the age lol

Edited by JimF-LowBari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.