YEA / Cadets Injury Lawsuit

[boxingfred]

34 minutes ago, FTNK said:

I really don't want to derail this discussion but that just isn't factual. In 3 years of Sacktig hornline drill I saw four five season-ending injuries: two three knees, a hip, and a testicular hernia. 

...And the tuba player that suffered the testicular hernia came back after a year.

[FTNK]

6 minutes ago, boxingfred said:

...And the tuba player that suffered the testicular hernia came back after a year.

Injury is an injury, especially one that painful... but I'd say drill has more risks of injury overall, while props have a higher probability of catastrophic injury. 

Drum corps can never be completely safe, but the props seem to be pushing the envelope

[joe mama]

It's not as much a matter of whether or not the prop itself is safe, but rather what the members are doing on and around the props that represents the real risk.  Inspections.would do nothing to address that.

 

 

[Jeff Ream]

and until both sides have their day in court, all we know is a suit was field that was written in a way to make the defendant look as bad as possible to help the plaintiffs case. Not saying either side is right or wrong, just saying there's a lot we don't know

[karuna]

9 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Thanks for advice on poster

I do remember some other very serious injuries, I remember a crown kid literally dragged off the field and others

Broken noses and fingers on guard members

I kinda remember a fall of a brass player knocking out a few teeth

To be fair,  that was more of a pre-existing stress fracture than "run and gun" drill which precipitated the injury.  While in hindsight it's clear he shouldn't have been marching in that condition,  I'm not sure the seriousness of his condition was fully appreciated at the time.   

I  agree with the sentiment that high-velocity drill is far less dangerous than large vertical drops off precarious props.  The attempt to equivocate the two is -- to say the least -- a big reach.  The risk in drill are mostly bumps and bruises from collisions.  The risk from a fall is immensely greater.  The risk from a collapse with many students simultaneously dancing on the same prop is exponentially higher. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by karuna

[Algernon]

7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

and until both sides have their day in court, all we know is a suit was field that was written in a way to make the defendant look as bad as possible to help the plaintiffs case. Not saying either side is right or wrong, just saying there's a lot we don't know

do you feel the same way about Antonio Brown?

 

[keystone3ply]

10 hours ago, FTNK said:

I really don't want to derail this discussion but that just isn't factual. In 3 years of Sacktig hornline drill I saw four five season-ending injuries: two three knees, a hip, and a testicular hernia. 

FTNK said "testicular". 😂  One of my favorite prop shows was BD '14 that looked like a yard sale.  😎

[GUARDLING]

10 hours ago, karuna said:

To be fair,  that was more of a pre-existing stress fracture than "run and gun" drill which precipitated the injury.  While in hindsight it's clear he shouldn't have been marching in that condition,  I'm not sure the seriousness of his condition was fully appreciated at the time.   

I  agree with the sentiment that high-velocity drill is far less dangerous than large vertical drops off precarious props.  The attempt to equivocate the two is -- to say the least -- a big reach.  The risk in drill are mostly bumps and bruises from collisions.  The risk from a fall is immensely greater.  The risk from a collapse with many students simultaneously dancing on the same prop is exponentially higher. 

I ve seen some pretty nasty injuries teaching over the years and I will have to disagree. They can be very serious as well as damaging for a long time if not life. Can there be just as many on props? sure but to say one is more or less than the other simply isn't true. Even  simple marching, How many older people now are suffering from painful knees after years of marching/ MANY, it's the topic of conversation with many who have marched before.

Bottom line "IF" a corps chooses to use a giant prop, THEY have to make sure it is safe just as they need to make sure a MM is safe in all aspects from travel, to food  to many many things. I am all for MAKING SURE corps do this BUT to lead the charge on this simply because it's an avenue for those who don';t like props ( and I believe there are some who will) is something quite different...YES, SAFETY MUST BE THE FOREFRONT .We do all have to agree with this.

I used a prop ( Huge ) that many members were on dancing as far back as the 90s and we made sure each time it was put together properly. It was quite solid, risk? I guess, probably, but even then we had no injuries ( luckily ) BUT had many from drill, a broken nose from a rifle, even a kid who got sliced open with a cymbal. Risk is there in all aspects in what we do, that's for sure. Injury is injury and we don't know what long term is for everyone. Now if we want to create a scenario to fit a narrative we can do that in ALL aspects of just about anything. Could all things happen? of course, the key is safety, education for all and vigilance in all aspects when MMs are in our care.

I have heard the argument on props over the years BUT have also heard the argument on how drill was getting ridiculous  also. Usually it was easy to see who liked what and who didn't yet defended the other. Would it be awful if a kid ( as has happened fell off ) of course . but just as awful when you have to send a kid home who broke a leg or arm or whatever because of equipment, drill, or a simple mistake that caused injury. No one wants a member injured for any reason or for any effect. NOONE!

I do think we are all saying the same thing but for me I'm not justifying or measuring one injury over another. It all counts, especially to the injured.

SAFETY 1ST, EDUCATION, TRAINING, VIGILANCE 

Edited September 16, 2019 by GUARDLING

[Spatzzz]

Back to the original topic since this got derailed into a discussion on props.....

I don't think anyone is arguing that the accident that occurred here with the plaintiff was anything but an accident. However the thing that looks not only bad but horribly bad and shows a severe lack of empathy and leadership on the part of the corp administration at the time was how they handled the situation.  IF it went down as stated. To dump the person at the hospital and neither follow up with them to see if they are ok or make sure they made it back home safely is totally inexcusable. Is this how they would treat a marching member? If I were a parent of a current or future member I would be asking that question.  

[GUARDLING]

5 minutes ago, Spatzzz said:

Back to the original topic since this got derailed into a discussion on props.....

I don't think anyone is arguing that the accident that occurred here with the plaintiff was anything but an accident. However the thing that looks not only bad but horribly bad and shows a severe lack of empathy and leadership on the part of the corp administration at the time was how they handled the situation.  IF it went down as stated. To dump the person at the hospital and neither follow up with them to see if they are ok or make sure they made it back home safely is totally inexcusable. Is this how they would treat a marching member? If I were a parent of a current or future member I would be asking that question.  

Now thats the most important word