Fran Haring Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) I guess the bottom line is, for me at least.... is the current tour model financially sustainable for the corps? No easy answers here, I would think. Edited October 1, 2019 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, denmum said: And 8 to 10 corps' should usually not cause a big problem. As Garfield mentioned above, housing could be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutasaurus Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, xandandl said: this benefits Midwest fans. The rest of us would have to pay for transportation and housing/board. Since its start in '72, DCI has always struggled with the Midwest (Mafia) as they were often termed vs. the experiences of those on the coasts Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf. Madison Scouts for a few years proudly wore tee-shirts referring to themselves as Coastbusters. Whoa, Midwest Mafia? The group who started DCI represented corps from all over the country. The Midwest is an equidistant point for both coasts and the midsection to compete. It”s that or.., rotate tours to left and right and middle coasts. Which is more cost effective? Let’s ask the bean counters @ DCI. Edited October 1, 2019 by Sutasaurus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fran Haring said: I guess the bottom line is, for me at least.... is the current tour model financially sustainable for the corps? No easy answers here, I would think. No! The current tour model is not financially sustainable for the majority of corps. The annual incurred cost between 1.8 and 2 million dollars for corps to operate will continue to rise. The return on investment is a shortfall that in itself has to be part of the budget listed as a drag on the annual P&L. Less regional participants create long term financial issues due primarily to most members not being vested to the organization. The majority of donors and financial support for many of these corps comes from rooted drum corps people as private and corporate donations. Many if not most are baby boomers and genX. Those dollars will eventually go away as people get older and there is less disposable income Organizations are looking at creating new revenue streams outside of alumni support knowing that they cannot depend on substantial donations from alumni. For an example; if a rookie age out from Nebraska trying to pad their resume to become a band director after college by marching with BD, what do you think the likelihood of that individual becoming a donor to BD? Slim to none. Why! Because they’re not really vested in the organization. Less regional participation has also had an affect on attendance. The days of attending a show by friends and relatives to watch someone they know in a corps is practically gone. No local participation is a challenge for show sponsors trying to sell tickets to a disconnected audience. Edited October 1, 2019 by Poppycock 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutasaurus Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, Poppycock said: No! The current tour model is not financially sustainable for the majority of corps. The annual incurred cost between 1.8 and 2 million dollars for corps to operate will continue to rise. The return on investment is a shortfall that in itself has to be part of the budget listed as a drag on the annual P&L. Less regional participants create long term financial issues due primarily to most members not being vested to the organization. The majority of donors and financial support for many of these corps comes from rooted drum corps people as private and corporate donations. Many if not most are baby boomers and genX. Those dollars will eventually go away as people get older and there is less disposable income Organizations are looking at creating new revenue streams outside of alumni support knowing that they cannot depend on substantial donations from alumni. For an example; if a rookie age out from Nebraska trying to pad their resume to become a band director after college by marching with BD, what do you think the likelihood of that individual becoming a donor to BD? Slim to none. Why! Because they’re not really vested in the organization. Less regional participation has also had an affect on attendance. The days of attending a show by friends and relatives to watch someone they know in a corps is practically gone. No local participation is a challenge for show sponsors trying to sell tickets to a disconnected audience. This discussion is similar to the discussion in a previous thread having to do with diversity in staffs. Financial diversity is at the core of this issue. How many corps can afford to keep up with this touring model? It’s time to rethink the touring model to better accommodate the financial diversity of it’s competitors. Grassroots participation will bring audiences back. More exposure at the high school/grade school level would, beg the expression, drum up more interest to younger audiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 hours ago, denmum said: Absolutely agree on both accounts. And 8 to 10 corps' should usually not cause a big problem. Nope. Now I do realize this could affect some shows, but in some places, when you see what they charge for good seats for 5/6 corps...good lord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 16 hours ago, Tim K said: I have heard discussions about the tour model for about two years now, and I know there are some who want to have fewer, but larger shows. Instead of smaller shows with four or five corps, there would be larger shows in better venues with eight to ten corps. Interesting. At the same time, there are two or three factors tugging in the opposite direction. 1. Fewer shows sounded okay for the corps who had 36 shows per season previously. But corps lower in the pecking order have never had access to as many shows as the top corps. Taken to its historical origin, the ultimate fewer-but-bigger-show model (VFW Nationals) was not working, and it drove corps to create logical tours with shows (and paydays) all along the way. That was one of the principal founding objectives of DCI. 2. Tightening enforcement of driving-hour regulations is creating a hard limit on how far apart tour stops can be spaced. And if housing is more difficult to come by, it will be necessary to maintain a geographical grid of show sites to get everyone from point A to point B. 3. Venues appropriate to our needs are not readily available everywhere. If our needs increase to demand space for a 10-corps event and the larger crowd necessary to make it profitable, can we still find a suitable stadium for every spot in that grid? Are any of these factors going away? Or are changes being contemplated that would address them? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Poppycock said: No! The current tour model is not financially sustainable for the majority of corps. The annual incurred cost between 1.8 and 2 million dollars for corps to operate will continue to rise. Do the majority of corps really face costs of 1.8 to 2 million dollars? Quote Less regional participation has also had an affect on attendance. The days of attending a show by friends and relatives to watch someone they know in a corps is practically gone. No local participation is a challenge for show sponsors trying to sell tickets to a disconnected audience. That is an interesting thought. Have the shows in Lafayette, LA, or Utah, or the Tri-City area in Washington benefited from the corps that developed in those locations? There are a number of other locations with established shows, where a potential new corps is in the development stages. If that is a formula for success, it could be replicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Poppycock said: No! The current tour model is not financially sustainable for the majority of corps. The annual incurred cost between 1.8 and 2 million dollars for corps to operate will continue to rise. The return on investment is a shortfall that in itself has to be part of the budget listed as a drag on the annual P&L. Less regional participants create long term financial issues due primarily to most members not being vested to the organization. The majority of donors and financial support for many of these corps comes from rooted drum corps people as private and corporate donations. Many if not most are baby boomers and genX. Those dollars will eventually go away as people get older and there is less disposable income Organizations are looking at creating new revenue streams outside of alumni support knowing that they cannot depend on substantial donations from alumni. For an example; if a rookie age out from Nebraska trying to pad their resume to become a band director after college by marching with BD, what do you think the likelihood of that individual becoming a donor to BD? Slim to none. Why! Because they’re not really vested in the organization. Less regional participation has also had an affect on attendance. The days of attending a show by friends and relatives to watch someone they know in a corps is practically gone. No local participation is a challenge for show sponsors trying to sell tickets to a disconnected audience. Very few corps spend half of your $1.8mm to $2mm per year to field a show. Most do it with little more than member dues (150 members at $4m each = $600,000). Corps don't need "vested" members, they just need a full corps each year of kids who pay their dues. It doesn't matter where members come from. Looking at the 990s of most corps will NOT validate that a "majority" of their financial support comes from either private or corporate donations. And people have been dying for a long time both before and after 1972. "Non-correlated Income Streams" are pie in the sky for most orgs (as much as I agree with the premise). What benefit does any MM get from marching corps? If a small percentage of them are doing it to pad their resume (I know a drummer who marched two years at BD, then bailed to do other percussion things because he had his "resume booster"), they may still have loyalty to the corps that got them there. If (s)he gets a better job because of BD, (s)he might still credit them with financial support. Family/friend at shows still follows the same path of less attendance for each year the MM marches, and I look at family attendance a little differently than "regional". Let's say a kid from Georgia has a choice to march BD or Crown. If he goes to BD, his family/friends see her perform in Atlanta and/or at Crown's show a few hundred miles away, and if she stays with Crown, the parents will get, maybe, one or two more viewings before/during tour. But, if a MM from MS goes to Crown (the closer of the two), are the parents going to see her march more than if she had gone to CA to march BD? "National" viewership is more important to the activity than is "regional" viewership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Sutasaurus said: Whoa, Midwest Mafia? The group who started DCI represented corps from all over the country. The Midwest is an equidistant point for both coasts and the midsection to compete. It”s that or.., rotate tours to left and right and middle coasts. Which is more cost effective? Let’s ask the bean counters @ DCI. The term referred to the first CEO and his wife,plus Bob Briske and staff, etc. all who were came from the greater Chicago area where DCI hqs. were ALWAYS until the move to Indy, despite the FACT that the first 12 corps came from across the nation. Only in the later half of the second decade of DCI did that Chicago influence seem to welcome others from outside the region in the power positions beyond the BoD and the implementation decisions of BOD discussion. I'm referring to the day to day workings of DCI plus who staffed what at Championships and regional . It was either G. Royer or G. Bonfiglio who coined the term. When I first heard it in the mid-80's, mine was not the only head that nodded in agreement. Edited October 1, 2019 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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