Mello Dude Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 The fact the OP made their points and feelings known should never be an issue. They don't like it anymore and made their points known. Welcome to a discussion board FFS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DFA1970 said: Not complaining like you. Just laughing. Sorry that wasn’t directed toward you... I’m laughing too... Just pointing out the “irony” Edited October 22, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 19 hours ago, Spatzzz said: You want to know what I think anytime this topic comes up? Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the Drum Corps activity is a form of artistic expression. What would have happened if the forward progression of art would have stopped at any point in history because people thought "this is what art is and it can't change from this form ever". It's a dumb argument but by all means continue to do the equivalent of reducing your exposure to art to anything up to the time of say Micheal Angelo. You are missing so much greatness and the only one losing is you not those moving the idiom forward. (When I say you I don't mean you specifically garfield but the "you" being those that want the activity to be what it was way back when) I think "forward progression" is a loaded phrase. It's very possible for art to "progress' backwards, or to progress to a dead end. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzzz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 16 hours ago, garfield said: Ugghh! You just MAKE me want to correct you! EVERYONE else besides you can believe differently and you're STILL the only one in the room who's right. Right? But... Yes, of course. And it's judged and rewards points and sponsorship and demand from future MM's can determine success or failure. This is not artistic expression like Caravaggio or Bernini. Who's this? A distant cousin twice-removed, maybe, to this guy? (Don't hate me, I couldn't resist.) And thanks for being specific in your use of 'you'. That said, you miss the point. The Michelangelo or Caravaggio "Art" that people see today IS the art in its original form. Sure, each's artistic talent and maturity morphed in their lives, but fans still witness and experience it live, as the art was when it was created. I exaggerate for effect and point - I'm not interested in G-horns and carrying tymps at all. My point is that one can put Mr. Angelo () up against almost any modern artist and his work still holds up to judgement of peers and fans. Not so in drum corps, where all things older than last year are banished as too old to repeat, and increasingly, "down-rewarded" for NOT being avant-guard enough. You can't compare a '75, '85, '95, '05, or even '15 show to this year, "today's design". I've overdone my point. One simply can't compare "artistic expression" when it's rewarded real, tangible financial benefit for "designing to the sheets" now, can one? And especially so when one totals the potential financial gain that being a great designer can bring to the design process. Michelangelo wasn't "painting to the sheets" in the Sistine Chapel, was he? Performance art, yes. Maybe you meant that, and I'd agree with "Performance Art". In performance art, I appreciate all eras and I wish that the eras that I particularly like(d) were ABLE to be judged and rewarded as much as the current champion so I might have the chance again to see that design again. But, alas, I'm asked to ban my appreciation for older design to digital downloads while expected to pay significant sums to see current design only, and little else, stand a hooters chance in hel11 of contending for the financial gain of being a top-contender. The Arms Race of A&E, prop, design, staff, and tour expense all in the name of "A-E" is bankrupting corps, destroying the tour, and is unsustainable. (Do I have to say "IMO" on a forum board?) Excuses for "Artistic Expression" are the fodder of designers and, run amok, the activity can't keep up. The Artistic Expression that puts real, demise-level pressure on corps organizations to participate, and do it safely, only in the realm of a $750,000 (or TWICE THAT!) annual budget screams for someone to wrap duct tape around "Artistic Expression's" head and shut him up so the activity can catch its collective financial breath! How, in God's name, are any of the corps expected to build any sort of financial safety net when it takes every, single penny every year just to comply with what "The Sheets" are rewarding? It is artistic expression in that the designers and members are attempting to explore new and creative ways to create programs within the idiom of the activity. Of course your point about appreciating historical artistic works in current times are noted and understood. They do stand the test of time and are still appreciated and used for inspiration for new artists all the time in fact we see their inspiration in the drum corps activity as well. My point was and is that art never stops evolving nor should the drum corps activity and yes the use of and experimentation with electronics is part of the evolution as are props and other yet to be explored creative tools. Maybe DCI does need to start containing the "arms race" as you call it. I do agree that some corps litter the field with stuff just for stuffs sake that offer no real compliment to the concept or design. If such designs were not rewarded I think you would see a change begin to happen in the activity to push creativity with and WITHOUT the use of giant wastes of money and effort. Maybe The Cadets poor use of props this year and overall subpar design and their corresponding placement is a start in that direction? I don't know, I don't have the answers to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 26 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: I think "forward progression" is a loaded phrase. It's very possible for art to "progress' backwards, or to progress to a dead end. Or to "evolve" itself out of existence, by merging into another pre-existing art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 23 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Or to "evolve" itself out of existence, by merging into another pre-existing art form. I’m thinking lack of concern about rising expenses and going out that way. But I have a bias thinking that as saw lot of local Sr corps go out when gas costs tripled then a recession and corps $$$ sources only went so deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 35 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Or to "evolve" itself out of existence, by merging into another pre-existing art form. That would be marching band. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Or to "evolve" itself out of existence, by merging into another pre-existing art form. The most concise and honest assessment I’ve heard yet regarding the state of modern drum corps. Edited October 22, 2019 by greg_orangecounty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: And complaining about someone complaining.... and making it the topic of a clip on DCAF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzzz Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Mello Dude said: That would be marching band. 🙂 Drum Corps has ALWAYS been marching band....just different instrumentation....stop trying to say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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