Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years

[JimF-LowBari]

6 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

But then we are conflating abnormalities with normalcy.  It's arguing an exception as the rule.  Having a surprise failure of a truck or an equipment storage fire and asking for help is not an example of living beyond of one's means.

I could put an addition on my house with a new patio and hot tub (well within my means)... and then have a 50 year weather event destroy it.  I'm not exemplifying living outside my means when insurance only gets me 70 percent whole.  I could also use heath scares as an example but that may hit close to home for some so I'll just offer the concept up generally.

I think it’s you being mislead by not understanding the points I am trying to make and going off in another direction so I will stop now....

[cixelsyd]

40 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

We can't conflate paying for emergencies that extend beyond reserves with normal operation.  Nothing about that is normal.  Do you know of some corps that has abnormal emergencies... normally?

Normal email blasts are not for last minute cash.  They are a small part of solicitation beyond other fundraising schemes.

Haven't you ever watched PBS? 😀

PBS is not bussing my kids across the country, depending on donations to cover the return trip.

[Fran Haring]

20 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

It depends... on how it is actually being 'hinted at'

Merely recognizing the programming effect of an electronic element is not at all suggesting its necessity to score well any more than giving the same recognition to the treatment of a musical phrase is suggesting that playing a specific style or genre is necessary to score well.

Credit for something there doesn't mean that it must be there for credit.  Credit could be given for something completely different.

(this is where we start a brawl over the subjectivity of it all)

Perhaps it is being 'hinted at' in other ways?

Could, say, the Blue Devils come out in 2020 with no electronics/narration/special audio effects in their show and contend, as they usually do, for a championship... if every other corps is still going full speed ahead with electronics?

I'm not sure that's the case.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Fran Haring

[cixelsyd]

11 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

But then we are conflating abnormalities with normalcy.  It's arguing an exception as the rule.  Having a surprise failure of a truck or an equipment storage fire and asking for help is not an example of living beyond of one's means.

Vehicles fail.  That is no surprise.  Budgeting should account for that eventuality.

As for accidental losses, some degree of insurance coverage is warranted.  

"Abnormal" would be a drum corps that never faces such challenges.

[cfirwin3]

1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

PBS is not bussing my kids across the country, depending on donations to cover the return trip.

Neither is a DCI drumcorps.

Name it.

[cfirwin3]

59 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Could, say, the Blue Devils come out in 2020 with no electronics/narration/special audio effects in their show and contend, as they usually do, for a championship... if every other corps is still going full speed ahead with electronics?

I'm not sure that's the case.

That's quite an extreme hypothetical to require.

I don't think most corps have spent more than the Bluecoats on electronics.  But they don't exactly hold a bunch of titles.

It's a theory in search of an example.

[Fran Haring]

18 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

That's quite an extreme hypothetical to require.

I don't think most corps have spent more than the Bluecoats on electronics.  But they don't exactly hold a bunch of titles.

It's a theory in search of an example.

Good point about the Bluecoats.... but I just think the corps feel the need to keep up, even if they technically don't have to. And would the Bluecoats be a consistent top 6 corps... the elite level of DCI... if they decided to forego electronics? Remember, they led the fight against adopting electronics... until electronics became a reality, then the 'Coats went the "ya can't fight City Hall" route and decided to do it better than anyone else.

We heard the same arguments/rationale when any-key was adopted.  "You can stay on G instruments if you like..." when the corps pretty much knew they had to change to stay competitive.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Fran Haring

[MikeD]

1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said:

I was only talking about the end of season “we need cash now” emails so please don’t it sound like I was posting about normal donation requests, where I have never seen the phrase “we need cash now”. (Both my colleges know my address 😜)

Corps admins create many different ways of looking for donations. A targeted one like you describe is just one of a variety of campaigns. It allows people to donate to a specific cause, as opposed to a general donation. It also means that if the corps gets $X in a targeted campaign to fix a truck or whatever it is needed for, it means the corps does not have spend $X from their general revenue. At the end of the day, it is all one big pot of dollars raised to run the corps. People have different triggers to make donations, so it makes sense.

[garfield]

3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

I wouldn't challenge that at all.  And my original statement certainly leaves plenty of room for your edit.  When we are talking about electronics, top placing corps can and do spend 2-3 times more than corps that eventually beat them.  The gear isn't half as important as its usage.

So I would argue the cause of your correlation, however, as not being related to material assets nearly as much as it is related to the design, and talent.  If the huge budget is the egg and high scoring placement is the chicken... I think the chicken begets the egg in most cases (i.e. successful corps solicit more money and talent).  This has the converse effect as well such that when scoring/placement dips... so does the money and talent.

This is a very thoughtful post, I'm sure.  So thoughtful that I can't follow along because of this burning desire for Kentucky Fried Chicken.

I'll think this through later, but I wish you'd stop the grazing field references and just be clear:  You think that successful corps attract money and talent?  Whew!  OK!  But sometimes the egg happens before the egg?  Wait.  

I'm hungry...

 

[MikeD]

Just now, Fran Haring said:

Good point about the Bluecoats.... but I just think the corps feel the need to keep up, even if they technically don't have to. And would the Bluecoats be a consistent top 6 corps... the elite level of DCI... if they decided to forego electronics?

We heard the same arguments when any-key was adopted.  "You can stay on G instruments if you like..." when the corps pretty much knew they had to change to stay competitive.

As has always been the case, corps believe they should remain current with the activity. Corps added contras, mellos, multi drums, marching timpani and later mallets, 2- and then 3-valve horns, etc.....and just about everybody followed suit. Would a corps sound inferior today without electronics? IMO yes. I know from the band I taught that when we did not micc the mallets in early rehearsals or when there was no source to plug into (practice field),  the sound suffered greatly.