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Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years


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3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

Perhaps some corps look at it that way...?  But in practice, I think that we can observe that contending shows are generally pioneering something rather than emulating.  So it's not really all that plausible or even possible to beat the Joneses at THEIR own game.  To compete with the Joneses you have to play the game differently... and I'm pretty sure that this isn't really an electronics issue at all in the end.

Do me a favor: When I hear this, I think of Mandarins and Academy but are they "contending"?  Please clarify so I understand your use of the word "contending".  There are lots of nice shows, but only a few "contending" in my mind.  

This is a hard point to argue from a financial perspective, so you'd better bring your A-game.  There is a direct correlation between budget and placement that shows up in the 990's.

Brilliant!  It's not an electronics issue at all in the end.  It's a judging issue and nothing else, and one specifically the result of the emphasis on GE in the matrix.

Now my stomach is growling and I'm thinking about Chic-fil-a...

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5 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Good point about the Bluecoats.... but I just think the corps feel the need to keep up, even if they technically don't have to. And would the Bluecoats be a consistent top 6 corps... the elite level of DCI... if they decided to forego electronics? Remember, they led the fight against adopting electronics... until electronics became a reality, than the 'Coats went the "ya can't fight City Hall" route and decided to do it better than anyone else.

We heard the same arguments/rationale when any-key was adopted.  "You can stay on G instruments if you like..." when the corps pretty much knew they had to change to stay competitive.

The Bluecoats didn't move placements with electronics until they hired new visual design staff, new percussion staff and expanded their brass staff.  Doug also started writing more technically contending music.  Not all of this happened at once.  They were still pulling middle of the pack placements with their electronic innovations.  It's all the other stuff that made the placement difference.

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3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

All activities struggle to cope with cost.  That's just budgeting.

I struggle to cope with cost every time that I look at my gas gauge and peer down the street at the various gas station signage.  Unless I get to a place where I can't afford to drive a car... I'm going to continue buying gas and complaining about the cost while I pump it.
 

None of these member corps are complaining about using electronics.  It's a fan gripe.

Uuhhhh...  I beg to differ.  There's LOTS of complaining about "the gear".  They like the effects because they think it's expected and there's always a better way to do it well.  Make it less expected and watch the spending and effort decrease.

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1 minute ago, garfield said:

Do me a favor: When I hear this, I think of Mandarins and Academy but are they "contending"?  Please clarify so I understand your use of the word "contending".  There are lots of nice shows, but only a few "contending" in my mind.  

This is a hard point to argue from a financial perspective, so you'd better bring your A-game.  There is a direct correlation between budget and placement that shows up in the 990's.

Brilliant!  It's not an electronics issue at all in the end.  It's a judging issue and nothing else, and one specifically the result of the emphasis on GE in the matrix.

Now my stomach is growling and I'm thinking about Chic-fil-a...

I could go for an omelet, myself.

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3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

All activities struggle to cope with cost.  That's just budgeting.

I struggle to cope with cost every time that I look at my gas gauge and peer down the street at the various gas station signage.  Unless I get to a place where I can't afford to drive a car... I'm going to continue buying gas and complaining about the cost while I pump it.
 

None of these member corps are complaining about using electronics.  It's a fan gripe.

Well, of course.  But you DO know that the dynamics of a non-profit budget are not the same as your need to drive your car.

The issue is not that there is price inflation it's that there is not a commensurate increase in the revenue of the activity as a whole.  Don't get me started...

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3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Really?  Do you need to assemble a BOD, apply for and obtain 501(c)3 status, and run several fundraising programs to buy gas for your car?

What... is that supposed to prove something?

A corps director complaining about the cost of competing would essentially be throwing a bucket of chum into the shark-infested waters in which they swim.

popping popcorn...

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3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

Sorry I was unable to convey the realities of all budgeting to you through my microcosmic analogy.

By your accounting of corps directors (which I think is inaccurate), it is then impossible to alter your view with facts.  It is a fact that no drumcorps are complaining about a perceived requirement for electronics and the cost of those items.  Drumcorps fans on the other hand... some of them are complaining plenty and will continue to do so.

I'm going to specifically listen for evidence of this next month in Indy.  I'll be interested in my observations, for sure.  I do happen to disagree with you but I'm willing to get, at least, some anecdotal evidence that what you say is true.

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3 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

 

He is positing that there is a massive deficit prior to bingo.  But that's not true.  With these organizations the only deficit is the one that you have after bingo.

Edit:

I looked back at the discussion.  And I think I had it worded exactly right.  The assertion is that having to do the fundraising and fee charging that non-profits do is a demonstration of poor operation (living beyond one's means).  But that assertion seems to pretend that a non-profit's normal fundraising activity is bad practice by virtue of what it is.  These organizations are solvent when their fundraising activity comes due.

No, wait, it IS true.  There IS a deficit before bingo.  That's the point of bingo.

I'm sure (hoping) I'm catching up and you have already settled this.

And it's not the fundraising that is a demonstration, it's the profligate spending by the leaders of said non-profit that demonstrates "poor operation (living beyond one's means).

I'm sorry, your last two sentences don't make sense to me.

 

 

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3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

The idea of refusing to use your arms (i.e. soccer) lost its cultural relevance back when our species learned to walk on two legs.  Yet there are more than 50 soccer teams in my town.

I have no idea what point you're arguing, but I LOVE this reference.  LOL

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37 minutes ago, MikeD said:

As has always been the case, corps believe they should remain current with the activity. Corps added contras, mellos, multi drums, marching timpani and later mallets, 2- and then 3-valve horns, etc.....and just about everybody followed suit. Would a corps sound inferior today without electronics? IMO yes. I know from the band I taught that when we did not micc the mallets in early rehearsals or when there was no source to plug into (practice field),  the sound suffered greatly. 

I hear ya, Mike, and I agree the corps want to keep current. Can't blame them at all.

I just wish there was a tad more "truth in advertising" on the rollout of any of this stuff. :laughing:

Instead of saying "well... you don't have to give up your G instruments"...as I remember hearing during the rollout period... perhaps  "the sooner you get on board with any-key, the better off your corps will be."   LOL

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