Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years

[JimF-LowBari]

1 hour ago, garfield said:

And I think you're leaving out the big elephant in the room:

Drum corps has failed to remain relevant through all of those larger issues even as WGI and hyper-competitive "corps-style" marching bands have succeeded in growing their relevance.

 

Too #### expensive for new corps to start up. Mike and I had this discussion before and had Corps disappear before but new ones used to come up. That and social changes are two biggest IMO

Edited December 9, 2019 by JimF-LowBari

[cixelsyd]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

increased costs in equipment is a drop in the bucket of what is needed to move a corps today, as has been explained time and time again. 

1.  No, that has not been explained time and time again.  Because if it was, someone would have pointed out that of the six major vehicles needed to "move a corps today", two of them are only necessitated because of the equipment arms race of the past half century.

2.  If there are other costs that we cannot control, that is all the more reason to focus on the ones we can.  Or are you suggesting that the rising cost of any one item be used as an excuse to abandon all budgetary discipline?  (Would like to be at your place on the 25th, if that is your philosophy.)

[MikeD]

3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Once you admit money matters, it becomes difficult to dismiss the cost side of that equation.

If only we were talking about just a marimba, or "an amp" (whatever that is).  Instead, the activity has added brass voices one by one, and replaced the entire brass choir five times.  Percussion started buying extra bass drums so that they could saw them in half and make tymp-toms, then they added actual tympani and various mallet instruments that were a challenge to carry.  So then we needed a place to put those heavy things down (the pit), which opened the floodgates for equipment we could never carry.  Guard equipment changes.  Props.  Amplification.  Electronic instruments.  Nationwide touring.  A caravan of buses and trucks (now multiple trucks for the equipment, and another one for the mobile kitchen).

If you still think cost was irrelevant, and that "everybody followed suit" when only 10% as many corps still exist, then we will just have to agree to disagree.  (But even your disagreement seems to admit agreement.)

Most of the hundreds of corps that folded did so long before Bb/F horns, electronic instruments, amplification, props, even the rise of the front ensemble. They folded prior to the need for the modern rolling stock to move the corps around. 

 

 

 

[MikeD]

49 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Too #### expensive for new corps to start up. Mike and I had this discussion before and had Corps disappear before but new ones used to come up. That and social changes are two biggest IMO

Agree. Corps always came and went as far back as you want to look. As societal changes and national economic issues increased, fewer and fewer corps sprung up to take their place.

In my area, the huge rise of the corps-style bands, taught by corps people, took the place of the smaller local corps. As they folded, few started up to take their place.

[cixelsyd]

15 minutes ago, MikeD said:

Most of the hundreds of corps that folded did so long before Bb/F horns, electronic instruments, amplification, props, even the rise of the front ensemble. They folded prior to the need for the modern rolling stock to move the corps around. 

That is stretching it, in several ways.

1.  If by "most", you mean slightly over 50%, you may be correct.  I hope you are not implying we should ignore the other 49%.

2.  Before those things you mention, we still had the percussion arms race, the first three of the five total brass choir replacements, and expanded travel.

3.  Like most things, "modern rolling stock" worked its way into the activity as an "option" that eventually became "necessary".  You could stow 1970s instrumentation in the storage compartments of buses, but many DCI member corps had developed a full eighteen-wheeler equipment/uniform trailer by the time the pit rule was passed in the early 1980s.  So they were immediately able to pile on full concert marimbas and racks of assorted pit percussion that would not fit in bus storage.  Just one of countless examples of how the top 10-25 corps passed rules that had "unintended consequences" for the other 400 corps... make that 300... no, wait, 200... 100... 

[JimF-LowBari]

7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

That is stretching it, in several ways.

1.  If by "most", you mean slightly over 50%, you may be correct.  I hope you are not implying we should ignore the other 49%.

2.  Before those things you mention, we still had the percussion arms race, the first three of the five total brass choir replacements, and expanded travel.

3.  Like most things, "modern rolling stock" worked its way into the activity as an "option" that eventually became "necessary".  You could stow 1970s instrumentation in the storage compartments of buses, but many DCI member corps had developed a full eighteen-wheeler equipment/uniform trailer by the time the pit rule was passed in the early 1980s.  So they were immediately able to pile on full concert marimbas and racks of assorted pit percussion that would not fit in bus storage.  Just one of countless examples of how the top 10-25 corps passed rules that had "unintended consequences" for the other 400 corps... make that 300... no, wait, 200... 100... 

Lot of those 100s of Corps disappeared before 1972. I’m including local corps that hardly ever went out of state. NanciDs blog is full of Jr corps that didn’t survive the 60s

[KeithHall]

I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to suggest going to a 2 small tour season to save money. Probably not enough corps to fill in shows already on schedule from year to year.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

 no amps, the same duct taped G bugles, no electronics, the same uniforms stitched together by corps moms hoping they don't fall part is nothing when you factor in the cost of fuel, housing, food and insurance. 

Instructional costs have also gone up.

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

1.  No, that has not been explained time and time again.  Because if it was, someone would have pointed out that of the six major vehicles needed to "move a corps today", two of them are only necessitated because of the equipment arms race of the past half century.

2.  If there are other costs that we cannot control, that is all the more reason to focus on the ones we can.  Or are you suggesting that the rising cost of any one item be used as an excuse to abandon all budgetary discipline?  (Would like to be at your place on the 25th, if that is your philosophy.)

yes it has across dozens of threads right here in this very forum. and not all of those vehicles are for solely equipment, they serve multiple purposes. But why let facts continue your rants of longing for days gone by the world in general doesn't support as a hole.

 

Garfield has done very detailed accounting of many corps 990's. dig up through the archives for those threads. The facts presented in those documents support me, not you

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

Most of the hundreds of corps that folded did so long before Bb/F horns, electronic instruments, amplification, props, even the rise of the front ensemble. They folded prior to the need for the modern rolling stock to move the corps around. 

 

 

 

shhhh facts