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Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years


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Were we not better off without amplification, mega props, mega pits, and all the costs associated with setting up/taking down and hauling this junk around?  And don't forget all the Bob Fosse wannabe “show designers” 

And what’s wrong with cold cereal,  bologna & peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?  We not only survived, we thrived. 

“Oh, but Drum Corps must EVOLVE, it’s an Art after all”!  Yeah, Drum Corps is “evolving” all right - right into extinction. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, garfield said:

Maintaining relevance includes demonstrating a business model that is workable.  If DCI's model is crippled by touring, then they haven't maintained relevance.

It's not as though WGI and competitive corps-style bands get a free pass because they still travel weekends, but their model is obviously more maintainable than the one DCI is using.

Trans-Siberian Orchestra tours 21 semis, over 30 performers, and over 70 crew and rakes in $70million/year in more than 100 shows in over 60 cities.  Taylor Swift tours 17 tractor trailers and a crew of over 30.  Obviously, "touring" is not the big problem with DCI remaining relevant.

 

I don't necessarily think touring is crippling. I think a lack of smart touring is an issue. 

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

And how does the DCI tour compare?

  • over 100 semis
  • over 4000 performers
  • over 1000 crew
  • rakes in less than $20 million
  • right around 100 shows, mostly in different cities

So your reaction is... ?

well obviously we need old hair band and death metal guys with lasers and pyro playing Christmas tunes with Morgan Freeman narrating!

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

And how does the DCI tour compare?

  • over 100 semis
  • over 4000 performers
  • over 1000 crew
  • rakes in less than $20 million
  • right around 100 shows, mostly in different cities

So your reaction is... ?

Well, obviously, based on the number of trucks used, drum corps ought to be generating somewhere around $330million in revenue each year.

(BTW, TSO donates $1 for every ticket sold to charities in the cities in which they perform.  They've donated more than $10million since inception.)

 

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8 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

No... I am saying it was some of each.  That is why I said, "Not all were for the same reasons, of course."  That is why I responded to your sweeping, errant generalizations in the first place.

 

I was talking about the general cases, not specifics. Of course there were exceptions and variations in looking at individual corps. I stand by my comments in the general sense. 

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23 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

I love the "us vs. them" spin you put on all of drum corps history.  Sponsors "pulled away" from drum corps.  Oh, those evil sponsors!

To be fair, there has been quite a bit of drum corps pulling away from sponsors.

Numerous drum corps programs were formed/sponsored by churches, veterans posts and other civic organizations, to serve the youth of their constituency with an inspiring, character-building, yet practical program.  Corps programs like these often operated for many successful years.  And all through the decades, many of them ceased operating, or parted ways with their original sponsor, even after having been successful.  Not all were for the same reasons, of course.  But one common issue was "mission creep".  Over time, some corps pursued their competitive ambitions by recruiting members outside of their sponsoring constituency.  Senior corps recruited members outside of their sponsoring civic/veterans organization.  Junior corps recruited kids from outside of the church, out of town, or out of area.  Another competitive ambition was to pursue higher honors than those available within the practical travel range of the sponsor.  Regional, national or international competition may never have been the intention of the sponsor.

Growth of the corps program beyond the sponsoring mission often severed the relationship between sponsor and corps.  In other cases, it simply meant that the corps grew to develop additional means of funding and administration, supplementing those of the sponsor.  You need to ask who was pulling away from whom in each of those cases.

If this is not a teachable moment, what is?

Your own corps caused its dissolution/reorganization precisely because of their "touring" (as it was in 1950s terms).  The Holy Name Cadets were happily sponsored by the church of that name for many highly competitive and well traveled years.  But in 1958, the church had some infrastructure to take care of, and expected their corps program to understand that it was their turn to cut back on travel, and pitch in.  The corps not only refused... they kept on traveling, raising funds for their trips by competing with their own church for the charitable attention of their community.  The corps knew they were going to cross a line that would cause dissolution of the "Holy Name Cadets"... and they crossed it.  So who pulled away from whom?

 

23 hours ago, MikeD said:

... 

The Cadets story is hardly as you describe it, but believe what you wish. You can put whatever spin you want on it. 

I'm in a unique position to comment on both of these posts.

For one, while I was still a college and then graduate student and a drum corps and color guard judging apprentice, I worked with the Boston CYO office under Mons. Bob McNeill as a moderator in discussions between the smaller CYO/EMass/Yankee circuit drum corps and the parishes who "sponsored" them; what "sponsorship" entailed differed from unit to unit, the only common denominator is that at some point the signature of the pastor of the parish (who is also canonically and civilly an officer of the corporation of the local parish church) was scribed on documents recorded with the CYO office and the unit was allowed to use the parish or parish school name. Sometimes there was a small contribution from the parish to the unit; not always. Sometimes the unit was allowed to practice on/in parish/parish school property; sometimes the utilities used for those practices and the insurance covering the unit's practices and activities were covered in the parish budget, but not always. Some units had to pay for what they used. It differed place to place from the perspective of the unit, the clergy, the parishioners, the schools. Most units had to raise the majority of their funds apart from the sponsorships of these parishes and schools.

As the demographics of parishes changed in urban areas to suburban areas, as costs of parish schools (particularly with increasing number of lay faculty who had to be paid a true salary and benefits compared to what was "paid" to the groups of teaching Sisters, Brothers, and order priests prior) the mission (statement goals and protocols to use current terms) did not always view drill teams, bands, winter guards and drum corps (of various levels) as best options for that mission fulfillment. And the mission statements of these marching units also changed during the years prior and after the formation of DCI and WGI. Sometimes it was a clash of personalities, sometimes a clash of budgets, sometimes merely a difference in philosophies and applications. The Archdiocese of Boston eventually closed a number of parishes, merged others, re-constituted or re-purposed some as the neighborhood changed (new immigrations, urban to suburban shifts, economic shifts in some neighborhoods.) Immaculate Conception and St. Anthony's, both of Revere and Blessed Sacrament of Cambridge are examples of parishes that changed greatly and the marching arts as an option saw different histories. Certainly a doctoral dissertation or two awaits for future study and publication all that went on in the Boston Archdiocese during these decades of Church and "marching arts." Believe it or not, sometimes one way I united the differing drum corps and clergy was in their joint "disdain" of having the moderator of the discussion be a "New Yawkah." Oh,when I write my memoirs...  🙂

In New Jersey, the story has an official version, several unofficial versions, much rumor, much confusion, much personality and personalities, some of them characters. I agree with MikeD, an alumnus of the corps, that the previous poster makes conclusions without all the facts. Some of those facts are only now coming to light as years pass and historical archives grant access, the Archdiocese of Newark had resumed leadership of the parish after several decades where the Franciscans, known for their vow of poverty, ministered in Garfield and where the current pastor of the church has done a yeoman's job of welcoming the corps in the dozen years he has been there; in fact he extended to the corps several levels of involvement which GH declined.  A definitive history of the split, the perspectives, the hurts, and the reunions would be another doctoral dissertation that won't see the light of day until all parties have passed. But one of the five reasons given to me by Drs. Cinzio and Santo, (both alums of the corps and directors of the corps and one who raised his family in that same parish) when they invited me to be part of the corps staff was to help ease that reunion, a hope that never faded in their understanding of the corps and in the understanding of so many of the mms and alums. It is part of the reason I made a special effort to obtain and post the photos of the recent memorial Mass (10/13/19.) The corps is/was/and hopefully will continue to be more than merely singular characters whether clergy or laity. Past histories can't be undone; parishes change, drum corps as an activity has changed, and people hopefully grow. These times and people are different in ways that challenge still.

Edited by xandandl
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Would love to see the background story as went thru those kinds of changes (minus a drum corps) with my old church. Was on council as we (finally) studied what was going on and why we could do little about it. Church closed last year after 125 years

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5 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Were we not better off without amplification, mega props, mega pits, and all the costs associated with setting up/taking down and hauling this junk around?  And don't forget all the Bob Fosse wannabe “show designers” 

And what’s wrong with cold cereal,  bologna & peanut butter and jelly sandwiches?  We not only survived, we thrived. 

“Oh, but Drum Corps must EVOLVE, it’s an Art after all”!  Yeah, Drum Corps is “evolving” all right - right into extinction. 

 

 

Ever consider if not for todays drum corps there would be nothing?

Extinction  and insisting the world wasn't changing  in many cases was the exact reason many corps fell by the wayside back in the glory days. Ever consider those who survived had insight in every way to preserve the activity?

I would love the good ole days sometimes also BUT I would also like to pay 30cents for gas ,again...not gonna happen

Also as far as how the mms eat and travel today, We were death traps on the road in many cases. AGAIN the world has changed and maybe we got a little smarter in some ways? I hope so anyway.

The good ole days will always be something special to look back on 

The good ole days are part of who we are today

The good ole days should always be respected because if not for those people we wouldn't have a thing today

The good ole days are also often  about selective memory🙂

Edited by GUARDLING
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29 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Ever consider if not for todays drum corps there would be nothing?

Extinction  and insisting the world wasn't changing  in many cases was the exact reason many corps fell by the wayside back in the glory days. Ever consider those who survived had insight in every way to preserve the activity?

I would love the good ole days sometimes also BUT I would also like to pay 30cents for gas ,again...not gonna happen

Also as far as how the mms eat and travel today, We were death traps on the road in many cases. AGAIN the world has changed and maybe we got a little smarter in some ways? I hope so anyway.

The good ole days will always be something special to look back on 

The good ole days are part of who we are today

The good ole days should always be respected because if not for those people we wouldn't have a thing today

The good ole days are also often  about selective memory🙂

Yep never thought I’d see “Sr” corps worrying about nutrition, stretching and strengthening after my years in the 70s/80s. Now I think “wish the #### we had done that bitd”...

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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