Largest gap between placement in a caption and overall?


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6 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

How on earth do you know that? 😂 

Without being a blatherskite, I used From the Press box.   file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/1972recaps (2).htm

Believe it or not, 72 was the first year I looked at, found a "contest" that had a large prelims, and found the Appleknockers.

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1977 Oakland Crusaders had top drums  but placed 15th in DCI prelims.

I miss Bill O'Reilly.

I think in 1983 or so, the Bridgemen were 11th or 12th overall, but first or second in drums.

2 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

Not surprised. Grove City can play with anyone musically. Incredible concert bands as well. Haven't seen a show of theirs in a while but I suspect they do not put the time into visual and the type of modern visual programs we see now. 

Apparently discrepancies like this are fairly common in BOA. On the Horn Rank forums, someone pointed out that in this very same event, another Ohio band, Kettering Fairmont, finished 23rd in Music Performance but 43rd overall: a gap one bigger than the 19-placement difference I had noticed. Also in the same event, an Indiana band, Beech Grove, was 31st in Visual Performance but 49th overall, a difference of 18 placements, or just one shy of Grove City's disparity.

Maybe the reason is that there are so many more competitors at the typical BOA event than at the typical DCI event.

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On 10/27/2019 at 10:18 AM, Jurassic Lancer said:

1977 Oakland Crusaders had top drums  but placed 15th in DCI prelims.

 I saw that drum line a few times that year. Maybe the cleanest snareline I've ever seen and heard.

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15 hours ago, hughesmr said:

I think in 1983 or so, the Bridgemen were 11th or 12th overall, but first or second in drums.

27th in 84 was similar...11th place corps, 2nd place drum line.

I'd also go with 84 Cadets...1st place corps, 7th place drums (the lowest placing caption for a championship corps).

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I would wonder if  we are less likely today to see the huge gaps mentioned in the drum corps examples. For one thing, recruitment has become so much an art and a science that you probably won’t see one section that is leaps and bounds stronger than another. However I would think the placement is not as important as the point spread. Some years only a fraction separates one corps from another in captions, other years the spread is greater. 

In school situations I could see where one section could be much stronger than another. I know every school system has different policies regarding participation in school activities. Some have the musical equivalent of varsity and JV, but most schools probably cannot recruit outside the district and they have to work with what they’ve got. I know a band director who often told me he had the easiest job in the world. The middle school director was great with the kids, inspired them, and was a strong percussionist. All my director friend claimed he had to do was put the talent in the right place and the percussion section always won the caption. When the middle school director became a principal at one of the district’s elementary schools, his replacement was not as strong and within a few years there was a noticeable difference. This director’s claim was that you can have all the greatest techs and volunteers in the world, but if you don’t have the right music teachers in place in the younger grades, the program will face challenges. 

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16 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Apparently discrepancies like this are fairly common in BOA. On the Horn Rank forums, someone pointed out that in this very same event, another Ohio band, Kettering Fairmont, finished 23rd in Music Performance but 43rd overall: a gap one bigger than the 19-placement difference I had noticed. Also in the same event, an Indiana band, Beech Grove, was 31st in Visual Performance but 49th overall, a difference of 18 placements, or just one shy of Grove City's disparity.

Maybe the reason is that there are so many more competitors at the typical BOA event than at the typical DCI event.

Your math is correct. But it stands against a horizon which I would like to parse.

The BOA super-regionals today are the size of what DCI prelims were in the early years.

Early Whitewaters had 100 corps in one division. Then for awhile we had 3 divisions; now we have 2 and Soundsport; upshot is that we don't have 100 competitive corps any more. What comprises a corps has shifted from up to 128 max to 154, although many corps in 2019 did not field a full complement. Budgets for h.s. bands are nowhere near what would be needed for a successful drum corps today. But even the BOA world is not perfect. As late as yesterday (less than a few weeks before Grand Nationals,) BOA had listed this on their website that there were still spots available to compete in Indianapolis this year. This is a downsize for a contest once known for its waiting lists, at the ready in case some unit cancelled, etc. No more; like their drum corps peers, bands are finding Indy too expensive for little return.

But what has increased tremendously over those years are the group-think mindset of the judges. The advent of internet availability of nightly scores and recaps, the webinar simulcasts of clinics and discussions with caption heads, the uberpolicing (not the car service) of deviant scoring by renegade judges, and the limited rotation of judges outside of the usual suspects at championships have grown a "consistency" in the activity which now sees little upset from Spring Training until Founder's Trophy awards. I still remember the furor Beth Fabrizio received after the LaCrosse contest where she scored another corps' brassline over Carolina Crown on a night where weather conditions changed midshow. There are factors afoot beyond mere math.

 

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17 hours ago, Ghost said:

Without being a blatherskite, I used From the Press box.   file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/1972recaps (2).htm

Believe it or not, 72 was the first year I looked at, found a "contest" that had a large prelims, and found the Appleknockers.

OK... just for using that word, you win the Internet today. :tongue:

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41 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I miss Bill O'Reilly.

Like George Hopkins, it appears O'Reilly has only himself to blame for his absence from his chosen profession.

At least the Cadets won't have to pay out $50 million in settlements.

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Anyway, for those who didn't have a chance to look up "blatherskite", per Google, I find this: "mid 17th century: from blather + skite, a Scots derogatory term adopted into American colloquial speech during the War of Independence from the Scottish song 'Maggie Lauder', by F. Semphill, which was popular with American troops."

Has a drum corps ever played "Maggie Lauder"?

 

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