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Drill is not dead? (Congrats Vandegrift!)


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9 hours ago, oldbandguy said:

What BOA rotation policy???

In the years when Grand Nationals had a waiting list to participate (this year they did not as neither prelim day reached its maximum number of entries usually being a max of 50 per day,) BOA would hold off some usual units to allow new participation (particularly if the new participating unit was able to fill a lot of audience seats and hotel rooms.) Costs being what they are today for travel, hotels, and insurance that policy is not as obvious as it had been. ALSO several States have strict rules about who and what unit may travel out of State and how often; these are known as 9/11 rules due to the restrictions imposed at that time; some States have eased up since. Texas UIL has very strict rules about its  bands from that State; Texas even limits the amount of rehearsal time a band may have per week. You might find this of interest as it really demands the educators to be organized, prepared, and effective. https://www.uiltexas.org/music/marching-band/eight-hour-marching-band-rule-qa

Edited by xandandl
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On 11/17/2019 at 11:55 PM, seen-it-all said:

The band that won visual, Avon, and the judges who awarded them, would likely disagree with you. Their color guard was magnificent and IMO was what delivered them that honor.

Avon also has world class marchers and visual designers, drill designers etc. Note the slim margin they won said visual over two groups with vastly inferior colorguards (One of them wasn't even really a colorguard). 

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33 minutes ago, Lance said:

is a drill-based visual program harder to teach and learn than a choreography-based visual program?  

or are they just different types of difficulty? 

A loaded question in which IMO I can  answer 1st hand  ( But won't )...lol.....Let the XXXX fly

To answer the last part YES different types of difficulty

Edited by GUARDLING
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4 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

A loaded question in which IMO I can  answer 1st hand  ( But won't )...lol.....Let the XXXX fly

To answer the last part YES different types of difficulty

Agreed. 

Although with these "dance teams" rather than color guards for some units, I am still bemused by my inability to decipher if there are different types of skirt fling/fluff techniques the way there are different equipment tosses and catches, spins, and musical nuances. I thought I had my cataracts fixed last year.

Edited by xandandl
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5 hours ago, Lance said:

is a drill-based visual program harder to teach and learn than a choreography-based visual program?  

or are they just different types of difficulty? 

Better to talk about efficiency than "harder to create and learn".

Drill based programs require FAR MORE work up-front by the designer.  But that work is supported by very mature software tools which have focused on increasing the both the productivity of the designer and efficient transmission of that information to 130 performers.  

Choreo-based programs require FAR MORE work during the instruction phase since the design is merely a sketch in someones brain.  This mode of instruction is frequently used in the winterguard world where the maximum number of performers is far lower and the performers have far more training in dance.

Of course you'll often hear "choreo-based" is far more difficult to teach from those who wish to gloss over the rest of the story.  

Difficulty for the performer to execute to perfection?   

Better to ask:  Are the performers adequately trained in dance to successfully dance for entire production?  No they are not.  So ( just like we do when moving from "real dance" to "colorguard dance"),  we move the level of expectation down when hornline members are asked to dance.  So the standards are lowered.    

Also -- can the performer successfully play their instrument while traveling in a choreo program?  No -- you can't really dance while you play so instead we see blob-fluttering from point-to-point and then standing and playing.  Also the motion becomes meaningless without huge props to give the motion a destination.  So huge props are used to create interest.  

Traditional marching is a form of choreography.  But it allows performers to create music while moving (which IMHO is the very HEART of drum corps).  And because the movement in INTERESTING and the balance of negative space to performer space is constantly evolving,  you don' t NEED the crutch of giant props to provide a destination to the motion.  The use of space itself is interesting and pleasing.  

I'm a huge fan of "drum corps dance".  It's awesome to see a full ensemble pull off some great choreography when they're not playing.  And I love seeing the choreo that's performed while they're playing but NOT traveling.  

But blob-flutters are just awful and are IMHO a severe dilution of the art.  Choreo-based shows works great in winterguard where the music is a recorded soundtrack.  But it fails miserably when the musicians need to actually -- you know  -- make music.  

Edited by karuna
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i'll go ahead and ask whatever i want with or without your approval or evaluation, thanks.

all of the stuff about talent level and choreo knowledge and music while moving is embedded in the question, not separate from it.  

but i like adding the creative part to it as well.  

is a drill-based visual program harder to create, teach, and learn than a choreography-based visual program?  

 

Edited by Lance
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20 hours ago, oldbandguy said:

I know what you're saying, but check the rosters of the top drum corps...Texas is indeed producing top-tier drum corps!

Drum Corps based out of the state of Texas, not members of other corps from Texas.

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1 hour ago, Lance said:

all of the stuff about talent level and choreo knowledge and music while moving is embedded in the question, not separate from it.  

but i like adding the creative part to it as well.  

is a drill-based visual program harder to create, teach, and learn than a choreography-based visual program? 

Seems to me that what karuna is saying is, in part, that it depends on the level of choreo that's expected, and that, in his estimation, what can be taught isn't good enough to offset the downside of losing more aesthetically-satisfying drill.

And I quite like the term "blob-flutters".

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