garfield Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Lance said: I don't understand any of this, so it's an interesting read for me. How do these changes address the myriad problems we've seen over the past few years with member safety, staff safety, grievance procedures, etc? I think you understand it better than you admit. The issues you address above are enhanced by this change because the presumption is that an org that can fill a bus has robust-enough P&P, staff, governance, and funding to be reasonably expected to maintain high levels of compliance with the expectations that comes along with permission to perform with DCI member corps. Potential member orgs that comply with the 55 min, and other rules, must demonstrate a depth of org that is distinctly NOT like Roman ran. More kids participating increases the volunteer pool for a robust org to tap to address the P&P expectations, and other things you list above in both governance and staff. Conversely, the presumption is that an org with less-than-a-bus size can reasonably be presumed to have a larger and more chronic struggle in finding staff and volunteers to address compliance issues when they're still worried about collecting enough talent and funding to get the caravan down the road. In short, shortcuts and financial decisions are made from an encumbered position that will likely magnify the impact of those decisions. The negative impact under these circumstances are potentially disastrous. DCI itself has made the necessary and important changes you address above to their offices and staff, and the member corps have vested in the executive the ability to command and defend specific minimums to participate. Most, if not all, orgs under the DCI umbrella today meets or exceeds those high standards. Everyone recognizes that it takes robust support to field a "competitive" org that can be called a DCI drum corps, be recognized as such and, as a result, be allowed to perform on their stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Corps Guy Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 19 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: I think it's more than that. Remember was it 2 years ago Legends were begging for money to continue the season? Revolution ran out of cash in Indy? Other corps begging in July and August so they could get to Indy? You may be right on the $ side. However, how many times has Pioneer been in the top 25? That is a new qualifier beyond just funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, garfield said: I think you understand it better than you admit. The issues you address above are enhanced by this change because the presumption is that an org that can fill a bus has robust-enough P&P, staff, governance, and funding to be reasonably expected to maintain high levels of compliance with the expectations that comes along with permission to perform with DCI member corps. Potential member orgs that comply with the 55 min, and other rules, must demonstrate a depth of org that is distinctly NOT like Roman ran. More kids participating increases the volunteer pool for a robust org to tap to address the P&P expectations, and other things you list above in both governance and staff. Conversely, the presumption is that an org with less-than-a-bus size can reasonably be presumed to have a larger and more chronic struggle in finding staff and volunteers to address compliance issues when they're still worried about collecting enough talent and funding to get the caravan down the road. In short, shortcuts and financial decisions are made from an encumbered position that will likely magnify the impact of those decisions. The negative impact under these circumstances are potentially disastrous. DCI itself has made the necessary and important changes you address above to their offices and staff, and the member corps have vested in the executive the ability to command and defend specific minimums to participate. Most, if not all, orgs under the DCI umbrella today meets or exceeds those high standards. Everyone recognizes that it takes robust support to field a "competitive" org that can be called a DCI drum corps, be recognized as such and, as a result, be allowed to perform on their stage. Operative word is assumption... Just read this as if you have more members then you have a healthier organization on the $$$$ and whatever else side. Just not getting those two pieces to line up.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Operative word is assumption... Just read this as if you have more members then you have a healthier organization on the $$$$ and whatever else side. Just not getting those two pieces to line up.... Well, presumption based on the experience of the current member corps. Not un-based assumptions, I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, garfield said: Well, presumption based on the experience of the current member corps. Not un-based assumptions, I don't think. Just sounds too cookie cutter to me that all corps fit into the pattern. Then again I’ve known non-corps groups that stayed small because they didn’t think the had the resources to survive getting too big. That sounds like good management to me. And saw where the phrase “well it works for everyone else” almost had tragic results in a hospital so that line of reasoning is crap to me... not saying you posted that just expressing my opinion And I kept hearing the phrase “member dues do not pay all the bills”. Edited November 21, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I asked this question a few pages back, but didn't get a reply - so here goes again: Were the new requirements (including the OC 55-member rule) passed by a rules congress which I (& I suspect others on the forum as well) did not notice? These are not minor, administrative tweaks to the rules. It is something that, IMHO, should be debated during an open rules congress. Edited November 21, 2019 by IllianaLancerContra link added 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 On 11/20/2019 at 9:48 AM, Brian Tuma said: Thanks, Roman. Lol. This is your legacy. EXACTLY. We can close this thread - everything needing to be said was just said by Brian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I asked this question a few pages back, but didn't get a reply - so here goes again: Were the new requirements (including the OC 55-member rule) passed by a rules congress which I (& I suspect others on the forum as well) did not notice? These are not minor, administrative tweaks to the rules. It is something that, IMHO, should be debated during an open rules congress. Well, that is interesting. The section in the policy manual appendix describing the rules congress process has been pulled. Shenanigans, indeed. There is plenty of documentation in past DCI news pieces about how the biennial rule change process proceeds. Proposals are prepared by mid-October. Committees refine them for distribution to the membership by December 1. At the annual meeting in January (the "Janual"), the proposals are first considered and voted upon by caucuses of instructors/judges. Then, those that advance go to the member corps directors for their vote. It appears that they are making an end run around the rulemaking process. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Glenn426 said: The problems that Teal and Magic had were that they where successful Open Class corps that moved to a World Class Tour without a financially stable environment and ran out of Money..... Not accurate. When the evaluations took place, those corps had the people and the funding to handle WC tours. Problem was that in both cases, those people left within a year or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 hours ago, garfield said: Can someone post the list of WC "Member" and "Non-Member" corps? What I'm really looking for is the answer to: Is there a WC corps today that is NOT a "member" corps and is only a "Participant" corps? I would like to know that, too. I would think that all 22 current WC corps have earned member status. But since a vote of the body is part of that process, there could be any number of corps being denied full member status just on that account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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