MikeD Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 6 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: To me your post reads as: "I don't like what drum corps are, and I want them to be something else." Drum corps is and always has been a form of marching band, so it is not really making it "something else". They have already eliminated most other restrictions, even strings. IMO there should not be any instrument restrictions. But that is just MHO. It is up to the DCI powers-that- be to do whatever they think appropriate, and I will love it as much as I did when I started marching as a 10-year-old in late 1963. If they open it up to WW, fine. If not also fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, garfield said: Hold on. This is not accurate. Most midwestern band programs teach traditional grip as a solution to the original issue of carrying drums up high. We NEVER taught or learned matched grip - it was always the ######## step-child. Your point is valid, it just doesn't include the traditional grip argument as you describe it. I played Slingerland's, too. My personal understanding is that traditional grip solved for the drum height as well as the left hand/elbow offset from using the sling. I learned matched grip first and moved to traditional a little under 2 years before my first DCI audition. That being said, we also used the old magnum carriers. I finally bought my own Ludwig fiber vest my junior year. Gordon Cagle helped me quite a bit in learning traditional grip. We learned matched grip in high school because it was easier to pick up supposedly. Is my understanding incorrect? I can go only on what I was told in the mid 80s. Edited December 25, 2019 by Weaklefthand4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Slingerland said: You're never going to address the financial realities, are ya? The corps can't afford to grow in size since every member costs them much more than they pay in tour fees and they're losing money as it is. There would be no noticeable uptick in ticket or media sales (if anything, it might decrease). The legacy fans who provide most of the charitable contributions that make drum corps viable now don't want it, and would be turned off by it. There is no chance that a major corporate sponsor will say "oh, they have woodwinds now? Let's sponsor the summer tour!" Financially, it's a total loser of a proposition, and would provide nothing except for a few individuals to feel all virtuous about their "inclusiveness." I would suggest that those who want summer marching band talk to DCI about creating a division for them, and start building their own bands with their own free-standing non-profit orgs to sponsor them. Surely there must be at least 7 or 8 groups that would form. Let them have their own class championships during Finals week - in fact, go to three bands and nine corps for Finals night and call it a thing. Have the courage to run with your big idea and start it up from scratch, the way the founders of the corps did with their organizations. Problem solved! Personally, I have always championed an "anything goes" division in DCI. No restrictions on instrumentation or members. But...WW will only pass if the current corps voting members want to add them. I don't see a bunch of "outside" organizations starting up. That is not the point of all this. It seems that the current DCI organizations are talking about legalizing WW for their own use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MikeD said: That is not the point of all this. It has yet to be pointed out what the whole point of this IS, besides "we need to be like marching bands." 🙂 Which is sort of odd given that marching bands have been trying to be like drum corps for the last 40 years. Edited December 25, 2019 by Slingerland 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Slingerland said: It has yet to be pointed out what the whole point of this IS, besides "we need to be like marching bands." 🙂 Which is sort of odd given that marching bands have been trying to be like drum corps for the last 40 years. Your suggestion that a bunch of new organizations should start up and include WW and leave the current corps alone is what I meant by that statement. The point in this is that DCI is at least pondering the legalizing of WW for themselves because they want to include them. Edit: Corps have been moving instrument-wise towards bands before DCI started. The movement goes both ways. Edited December 25, 2019 by MikeD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said: You’re super nice, too! Merry Christmas, everyone! Well I had someone keeping my sorry butt in line... Merry Christmas or any other holy greeting to us all... and best wishes to anyone not included in the above 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) All of you that think Dan Acheson is driving this movement don’t understand the complexity of running an organization. While Dan has a role, I would argue that his is more fundraising and operations, with much less influence on the competition side. Friends, a majority of what we’re seeing from the competition side comes from the corps and the people that run them. It’s feedback from their creative teams, consultants, and vendors. These are the people working behind the scenes to influence the shape and direction of the activity for years to come. If you want to blame people for the addition of woodwinds, strings, and other changes happening to the activity you need to begin to focus on the Board of Directors and people within the corps that make these decisions from a competitive level. A majority of the reason that these decisions are being made cokes down to one thing... money. Designers are constantly trying to stretch the bounds and find new ways to design shows, and they see a benefit in working with vendors and consultants to help grow the activity. Vendors see the growth or marching band and will continue to push new instruments, sections, props, etc. Prop design and creation is now a multimillion dollar industry and they two have a seat at the table. More performers means more uniforms/costumes. And performers and parents are now accustomed to spending $5k-$10k per year on their experience. Bottom line, DCI and marching band have grown into a multimillion dollar train that is moving down the tracks at high speed. Woodwinds are definitely coming to drum corps and there is nothing that any of us can do about it. And I do not believe that a revolt is on the horizon either. It will be welcomed, there will be an adjustment period, and it will become the new norm. Fans will continue to go to shows, and there will be a new subset of fans who will be ushered into the Activity who will take the place of the people who leave the activity (which will be relatively small). Edited December 25, 2019 by Newseditor44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) With all due respect no one has any idea what will happen regarding audience size based on change or no change. My concern is more what will happen to corps when the the next oh crap happens. Cadets and Pioneer were lucky the organization wasn’t sued out of existence. And again I see DCI looking at on field changes and nothing that would help save corps if crap hits the fan. Don’t forget any changes due to Pioneer and Cadets happened after “the horse got out of the barn”. As for parents/marchers being “used” to paying $5-$10k a year, scary if DCI and the corps are going to depend on that always being there. DCA ain’t the only ones going with same old same old Edited December 25, 2019 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: With all due respect no one has any idea what will happen regarding audience size based on change or no change. My concern is more what will happen to corps if the the next oh crap happens. Cadets and Pioneer were lucky the organization wasn’t sued out of existence. And again I see DCI looking at on field changes and nothing that would help save corps if crap hits the fan. Don’t forget any changes due to Pioneer and Cadets happened after “the horse got out of the barn”. As for parents/marchers being “used” to paying $5-$10k a year, scary if DCI and the corps are going to depend on that always being there. DCA ain’t the only ones going with same old same old They will, and it will stay that high moving forward. If travel sports can get away with charging that per season, so can DCI. >$1,000 tours are a thing of the past and will never happen again, at least for World Class tip 12 corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Newseditor44 said: They will, and it will stay that high moving forward. If travel sports can get away with charging that per season, so can DCI. >$1,000 tours are a thing of the past and will never happen again, at least for World Class tip 12 corps. Well I keep thinking the rust belt is full of empty buildings of companies that would never go away. Thinking things will always improve or stay the same means being complacent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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