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Disturbing DCI rumors


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22 minutes ago, Tim K said:

Regarding “hurdles” of learning a second instrument, motivated high school students love hurdles. Football and soccer players give up countless hours and vacation time for captain’s practices, and I’m willing to bet the same holds true with cross country and field hockey. If you are taking Advanced Placement English, you will probably be reading 4-7 novels by authors such as Dickens, Melville, Cooper, and Austen. 

Those WW players that have marched DCI before are very worthy members and they did much more to earn their spots than the brass player had to do.

But to think that the youth these days would want and seek out extra responsibilities only to be in the same position as their Brass players is not realistic. Most WW players would look at the hurdles they would have to clear and say, nope Not for me, I'll just not march then.

This is the core conundrum in DCI's Mission statement. 

Mission Statement

The mission of Drum Corps International is to bring the life-enriching benefits and enjoyment of marching music performing arts to more people worldwide (AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT A WW MUSICIAN, WHO'S NOT WILLING TO LEARN A NEW INSTRUMENT). We do this by creating a stage for participating organizations to engage in education, competition, entertainment, and the promotion of individual growth.

Vision Statement

A world in which the positive life-transforming personal and societal benefits of marching music performing arts (AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT A WW MUSICIAN, WHO'S NOT WILLING TO LEARN A NEW INSTRUMENT) are widely recognized and enjoyed.

Core Values

Pursuing Excellence: DCI strives to consistently demonstrate excellence in its operations and results and remain the preeminent leader in its field.

Teamwork and Collaboration: DCI promotes effective teamwork, productive relationships, and cooperation to achieve superior results.

Visionary Leadership: DCI leads in moving the marching music performing arts toward a preferred future that inspires others to share the vision and engage.

Commitment and Dedication: DCI works diligently and tirelessly in its devotion to advancing marching music performing arts.

Creativity and Innovation: DCI demonstrates imagination and ingenuity to develop new and effective ways to accomplish its mission.

Mutual Care and Respect: DCI treats all with dignity, courtesy, attention, and appreciation; and seeks these traits in others with whom it engages

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4 hours ago, cybersnyder said:

In 2018, 337,000 school woodwind instruments were sold and 266,000 school brass instruments were sold according to statista. I understand that you want all brass, but there may be a larger untapped portion of the market out there. 

well i was considering getting back into Friends. not now

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2 hours ago, Glenn426 said:

Yes and I like the marching arts, But I wouldn't sit through an entire Local Marching Band show. Not because they have woodwinds, But simply because in my experience I have probably seen everything that they are presenting. Nothing will be innovative in their presentation. (Some are but its usually not at a local show, its at BOA Regional Finals and BOA GRAND NATS)  Its not the pinnacle of the activity.

I love Football, But I dont watch the College Football much outside of my team. (Univ of MIami) But I can watch the NFL for 9 hours every Sunday because its the pinnacle of the sport.

And While I'm on football, Football for the most part is played the same way all the from Pee Wee all the way to the NFL. Its a sport and it has rules. Imagine if the Pinnacle of the sport it didn't include any Kickers. But at every other stage of the sport there have been kickers. In Pee Wee, HS, College.... Kickers.

And when Someone questions why the NFL doesn't have Kickers, they only reason given is " Because its Tradition, Its always been like that." How does that make sense? Wouldn't it make sense to allow Kickers to follow their dreams and fulfill all of their hard work by having a nice long career in the NFL?

And before you say its not the same thing, Its the Marching Arts now, Drum Corps haven't had any direct affiliations with a Military Corps for ages. IMO the only true standing Drum Corps is the Marine Drum and Bugle Corps. They have their affiliations to a Military entity and to my knowledge have withheld their strict military code.

So with no affiliations to the Military all Drum Corps are all now really to be considered Outdoor Performance ensembles. Heck I haven't been around the corps during bus unloading but when was the last time you saw a Drum Corps called to Attention? Corps Ten Hut?!?! It's simply not a part of the activity anymore. Heck even the Corporal punishment that used to be common (Push ups, Laps, Burpees) all of that has made way to Actual Physio training from a trained Physical Trainer. I learn this past summer that most corps don't do a full Run through of the show anymore on Show days... They chunk through the show and at the end just call it a day, to save the members energy for the Show Run through.

Smart people stepped in and started to question why things where happening and when the only reasoning given was, "that's how its always been" It's simply not enough of a justification to continue with a bad habit anymore.

and DCI will suddenly innovate what woodwinds can do on a field in an awe jaw dropping way?

 

No, they'll do what we've seen done elsewhere. how may years of trombones and it's stll 95% glissando gimmickry?

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9 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

“members with the reversal of one simple rule. I'd say it provides facts that highlight the need, want, and argument that DCI has to allow the potential of membership to be opened to these new individuals, without the hurdles and logistical nightmares that would normally encounter a WoodWind player learning a second instrument.”

logistical nightmares

Those who don't have valid arguments I find just seek to nitpick on technicalities and catch words to support to their "Jokes?/ Insults, idk" 

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12 minutes ago, cybersnyder said:

This assumes that those trying out for WC and failing will want to march OC. Re: trickle down economics.

I know of three direct examples of members trying out for WC Corps and getting cut and immediately seeking out other opportunities in other WC/OC corps. In one example she ultimately deciding to return to their OC corps that they marched in the summer before, instead of being an Alternate in a Lower Tiered WC Corps.

She ended up Medaling in OC and had a great summer. When you work all Winter and save up money to march the summer and you don't make it to your top option, you go wherever you can because you want to be on the road.

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15 minutes ago, MikeN said:

At the OC level, it just doesn't work like that.  Kids try out for the "name" corps they want, and if they don't make it, they don't trickle down - almost all of them just go home and are never heard from again.  In addition, there is no centralized "cut list" - it's purely based on the relationships between your caption head and other corps.  

The silent masses that we let pack up and go home are one of my biggest frustrations with the drum corps activity - these are kids that already took the first, biggest leap, and they just blow away with the wind at the end.  

Mike

Everyone has different experiences. Some members do have the mentality of WC or bust, But others like in my example marched OC first, and had no qualms going back to OC. Even over other options in WC for corps that haven't made finals in the last decade.

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On 1/7/2020 at 11:30 AM, Glenn426 said:

Where does the WW player get a brass instrument? What time? Will their WW playing suffer because they are not dedicating themselves to their main instrument? Probably.

Do Band Directors enjoy having their talented and rare Bassoon player give up on Bassoon because they want to march DCI? Nope they hate it, and this is probably why among a subset of Music educators there is a stigma around DCI.

Where there is a will there is a way and WW players in the past have had to sacrifice much more than their Native Brass playing colleagues to make it to DCI,  but this rule change would remove that hurdle. Everyone is on the same starting line to make it to DCI. (Woodwind players had to take two giant steps back off the starting line before to make it DCI.)

 

I assume you are a music educator? If so, you should know the answers to these questions. Being versatile is an asset, not a nightmare as you so dramatically put it. You are simply trying to use hyperbole to strengthen some kind of case for discrimination against woodwind players by Drum Corps International.

 

I'm a bassoonist. I also marched DCI. I won I&E in a brass octet in 1993. I played Carnegie Hall under the baton of H. Robert Reynolds in 1999. I suspect that I am not a unicorn in this regard, as far as woodwinds who have enjoyed learning to properly play a brass instrument without having their technique suffer as a consequence. Band directors that I know (and I know tons) value versatility. It is the hallmark of a quality wind player. You make it sound like a #### disease.

 

Your premise in this regard is flawed and it has been flawed since your first post on the subject.

Edited by GBugler
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5 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

I know of three direct examples of members trying out for WC Corps and getting cut and immediately seeking out other opportunities in other WC/OC corps. In one example she ultimately deciding to return to their OC corps that they marched in the summer before, instead of being an Alternate in a Lower Tiered WC Corps.

She ended up Medaling in OC and had a great summer. When you work all Winter and save up money to march the summer and you don't make it to your top option, you go wherever you can because you want to be on the road.

I'm sure some do, I just don't know what the percentage is. 

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17 minutes ago, MikeN said:

DCI has a stigma with band directors for many reasons, and I've been witness to a ton of them, but I've never, ever heard a director complain about DCI because their WW players are spending too much time on brass.

Mike

Again, Your experience. MY director that I worked with had on several occassions a Talented WW member that switched to Brass after Sophomore year and left him scrambling to build up another Bassoon/ Contrabass Clarinet/ Oboe.

When you are playing the top echelon of Wind Band Lit. You need a diverse and textured instrumentation to have the sonority and blend that the piece calls for.

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

Which proves what, exactly?

Sorry, but that rule change does nothing to facilitate an additional 337,000 people to march DCI.  For that, you need more ensembles. 

 

or raising the membership maximum

Edited by Jeff Ream
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